Well, climate change is undisputed (though some of the non-consensus view scientist were arguing against even that - though the most prominent of these as much admitted that human caused climate change rub against his religious sensibilities [he was the guy at UofAlamba, iirc, who claimed the satellite measurements of ocean temp contradicted the idea of warming - and it turned out his data was dependent on some erroneous assumptions, all part of the scientific process).
The more problematic is determining the cause. This is harder to pin down, and we really only can make probabilistic statements, rather that assert "facts"." The scientific consensus is that the current changes appear to be consistent increased greenhouse gases from human activity. I don't have any problem with that. We do have to remember that all of this is about not just what the uncertainties are but what you do in the face of uncertainties. And this is invariably subjective and will reflect our individual interests and beliefs. So it is a bit counter-productive to treat people that disagree with us as simpletons who don't understand cut and dried science. I say 'us' because I don't own any corporations and have very few right wing or religious beliefs or friends that I need to protect, I AM shit-scared about what will happen in the lifetime of my children. b_s-wilk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Mike, You've proved my point that you don't understand the subject, so you just make up anything to cover up you lack of knowledge. I don't believe in global warming and climate change--that would be a religion, which it's not. There's plenty of scientific facts/evidence to prove it, and little to prove otherwise. Those who deny the significance of climate change have about as much credibility as flat earthers with climate and other scientists. The danger from pollution and the increase in CO2 is significant and can be reversed, whether or not they contribute directly to global warming. People like you who deny the facts so they can avoid remedies are a big part of the problem. I've been involved in the solar energy industry since the late 70s. The $50,000+ in energy costs that we've saved just on our house is cold [or warm], hard cash that we used for college tuition and many other things that we couldn't have afforded using traditional wasteful energy. Unless your religion is money, and you have the science to back you up about climate, you're full of hot air that you can use to heat your house this winter. Global warming is helping the palm trees to grow better in my yard in Maryland. We now have four--three Chamaerops humilis, http://www.floridata.com/ref/C/cham_hum.cfm, and one Rhapidophyllum hystrix, http://www.floridata.com/ref/R/rhapido.cfm. Betty > Thanks for proviing my point Betty. > > Mike > > On Jan 11, 2008 9:32 PM, b_s-wilk wrote: > >> > > Environmentalism to the tune of this type of video is a religion. >> > > >> > > As such I suppose you can keep your faith and I'll keep my lack of. >> > > >> > > As to the numbers, the Dept. of Agriculture has the forestry numbers. >> > * >> > > http://tinyurl.com/2s9eht >> > > >> > >> > >> > There you go again!! Whenever there is a very serious issue that someone >> > doesn't understand or doesn't want to be involved with, instead of >> > learning more, or shutting up, all of a sudden it's a RELIGION! NO. WRONG. >> > >> > Science is not a religion. It's based on repeatedly observable facts. ************************************************************************ * ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in <== * ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <== * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ************************************************************************ * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived ************************************************************************ Checkout One Laptop Per Child project laptop.org ************************************************************************ * ==> QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in <== * ==> the body of an email & send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <== * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ************************************************************************ * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header "X-No-Archive: yes" will not be archived ************************************************************************
