On Tue, 2003-06-17 at 14:53, Buchan Milne wrote:
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> Please note, this is a development list, if you want a list for
> "Mandrakesoft business strategy", maybe you can find someone to host
> such as list, but this one is not for discussing Mandrakesoft business
> strategy, and I am quite sure no posts to this list by and Mandrakesoft
> employee should be taken as company policy ...
Noted. But the topic is not really business strategy from my viewpoint;
it's the impact that the Club has or does not have on development.
>
> Lyvim Xaphir wrote:
> > On Tue, 2003-06-17 at 13:29, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote:
> >
>
> > Which is a moot point since if you are not going to pay any attention to
> > users that have *purchased* a vote, what then convinces anyone that you
> > will put a priority on users that HAVE NOT purchased a vote? Who you are
> > *not* listening to anyway any more than the paying ones?
> >
> > Basically your paragraph above is another way of saying that basically
> > the MandrakeClub users' opinions have no impact greater than the other
> > (non-paying) users,
>
> What about users who are not members, but contribute (not financially)
> to Mandrakesoft?
>
> Are MandrakeClub members the only people who pay (commercially)?
Who knows whether commercial or non-member contributors have impact when
the real source of the decisions ("ergonomics team") have no
explanations or discussions forthcoming on the forums or the polls?
>
> > again about whose wishes you are as ignorant as the
> > Mandrakeclub user's wishes and polls, and thus further emphasizes what I
> > have been saying for some time now, which is that the money that Club
> > members pay puts absolutely NO priority on their voting input/opinions
> > and therefore can be equated to being the same thing as a propaganda
> > scam. Thanks and no thanks for the vindication.
> >
>
> Sorry, but the voting for RPMS for 9.1 did influence the packages that
> were put in the main distro and included in PowerPack (which does not
> inlcude all of contrib). Search the archives for that.
This is true; I had in mind the rpmdrake issue when I wrote that, and it
would have been better stated giving credence to the impact that package
votes do have.
>
> >>I wasn't even aware of the results of the presence and results of
> >>those polls. I was only aware that people wanted that we rebuild
> >>8.2 version on more recent releases.
> >
> >
> > Let me get this straight. You are a Mandrakesoft developer and are
> > completely unaware of what the MandrakeClub user/members wishes are with
> > regard to the Mandrake Distribution, and some of it's interfaces which
> > you are responsible for developing.
>
> That's an unfounded statement, many users interact on this list and via
> bugzilla.
Not completely unfounded, Buchan. It is based on what GC has already
stated, which is that he was unaware of the polls existence and
therefore of any discussion surrounding the polls. As far as he knew,
it was not the cosmetics of the interface that was the issue, it was
reworking rpmdrake 1.4 from the backend on up, reforming existing old
code, and that is not what was being asked for. The cosmetics were
always the issue, nothing more; but none of this ever percolated over to
the developers.
>
> > Further, as a developer and a
> > person responsible for key user interfaces you are completely unaware of
> > paying Mandrake club user/member vote polls that explain Mandrake club
> > user/member preferences regarding said key user interfaces, even though
> > you are a paid employee of Mandrakesoft, the same company that created
> > the Mandrakeclub and the Mandrakeclub polls. (???????)
> >
>
> 1)As far as I can see, there has been no poll on "Do you prefer the UI
> from rpmdrake in 8.2 to the new version".
>
> Maybe you can show me, since I don't see it here:
> http://www.mandrakeclub.com/pollBooth.php
That's because in the surveys, nobody was ever asked about their
rpmdrake preferences. You won't see the polls in the rpm package voting
either because they were shut down, and that's where the UI voting took
place. Probably because nobody had a survey to go to. Therefore they
created one.
>
> 2)MandrakeClub should be responsible for ensuring that this input is
> communicated to the development team, who handle requests from other
> users also, many who contribute in various ways. The developers
> shouldn't necessarily be repsonsible for tracking everything that
> happens on MandrakeClub.
I agree, but I also think that developers should be aware of what the
user's wishes are regarding the item that they are developing.
>
> 3)MandrakeClub's primary reason for existence is to give people who get
> their distro via alternate means (downloading etc) an easy way to give
> back, with the possibility of influencing the development, and for other
> possible added benefits, and is advertised only as such.
The way it is advertised verbatim is as "a place where your voice will
be heard." In this case no one was asked, the users brought it up
themselves of their own free will because of their concern, and they
were not heard or recognized.
>
> > I'm just going to stop digging with this one shovel and let you do all
> > the work since you are digging your own hole now with three backhoes and
> > a bulldozer.
>
> Well, this list *is* for development, something you may not have noticed ...
>
> Regards,
> Buchan
We seem to be discussing a development problem, since it is a problem
that concerns development.
--LX
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