> On Fri Sep 12, 2003 at 09:22:15PM +0200, Jan Ciger wrote: > > (Ok, I lied, but I had to respond to this post because it's just > infuriating > and insulting). > > > | I hate to say it, but it cracks me up how people are so against > > advertising, > > | our business model, and things we do to make revenue so that the > > developers > > | and others in the company can eat and afford to spend all of their > time > > | working on the distro. Sounds like the community would rather have a > n > ice > > | distribution but all the developers should be homeless and starving. > > > > I think, that this is just not true and most people here will agree. > > There are plenty of ways how to make money out of the product without > > resorting to ads. E.g. selling support, selling special "enterprise" > > versions (e.g. RedHat is doing this) or making the distro > > semi-commercial (aka Suse). > > Listen. No matter what we do, there will be some people who don't like > it, > and those people will be vocal. History has proven this. Selling > support? > Sure, great idea. But people will go to mailing lists, newsgroups, web > forums, etc. before purchasing support. It's great for enterprise, lousy > for "joe user". We would also need an increase in staff, which means we > need to pay these people (and train them) before utilizing them, which > costs > money. So something has to be done to create enough money to increase the
> size of the support department. > > Selling special enterprise versions? C'mon. People were *so* pissed that > Corporate Server didn't have ISOs available. What's the result? People > who > want servers (and pay) buy ProSuite because it's cheaper. People download > the ISOs and use those for servers. Then people cry when we don't support > them after 18mos. > > Making the distro semi-commercial? Did you not read this thread? People > seem to think that with these ads Mandrake *is* semi-commercial. So if > you're suggesting this as a viable alternative, well, guess what.. you > just > stepped up in favour of what we're doing according to what has been > contributed to this thread already! > > (See what I mean about no matter what you do some people won't like it?) > > > I do not think, that there is a problem with making money out of the > > product. Most people here are Club members or bought their boxes. > > Fair enough, but I don't know about "most". Shall we conduct a poll and > determine how many people are on the cooker list and how many have bought > 9.1 and/or are current Club members? I don't think "most" will measure > up. > > Fact is, considering our estimated number of users, an extremely small > percentage of people are Club members, and I'm guessing in the order of > 5-10% and that's likely being generous. You want to see ad-free versions > of > Mandrake? Turn that number into 50% and I guarantee you will have a > jaw-dropping next distribution because the resources will be there to go > into doing some fantastic stuff. > > > Problem is, that : > > > > a) this alienates the users - I do not know anybody who is fond of ads, > > most users hate them. Yes, you could remove them, but I do not think > > that the user will come back if the first thing he sees is an ad for > > some unrelated product. Especially the default screensaver decision is > > bad :-( > > Please. You didn't read the url I posted either. Before you replied, you > should have done so; this point wouldn't have been mentioned. > Screensavers > will not be touched. This misinformation is causing a lot of bad will > towards us and it's just plain *false*. > > And who says it's going to be an unrelated product? You think we're > throwing ads in there for groceries at Safeway? These are Linux-related > ads > >from Mandrake partners. They are related and they are relevant. > > > b) nobody even bothered to say something to people in Cooker. There are > > plenty of people there, who are spending lots of time working on Cooker > > without any remuneration. People here are not even worth a mail from MDK > > saying something like "oh, btw, there will be ads in the upcoming > > version, what do you think?", it seems. Somebody had to notice this on > > an obscure web page and also Slashdot picked it up before somebody from > > MDK bothered to say something. > > You know what? I hate to shatter your ego and I'm sure I'll get flooded > with hate mail but... cooker is *not* MandrakeSoft. Yes we value your > input, yes we value your contributions, yes we value your support, and yes > we value *you*. BUT, that having been said, MandrakeSoft is a company and > as such has to make decisions that will benefit the company, it's > employees, > and it's products (with the end resulting benefiting *you* in a way that > we > see benfits all). MandrakeSoft has had to make some tough decisions in > the > past and we will likely have to do so in the future. We don't expect > every > one > to like or even agree with our decisions.... they always affect or offend > someone even while someone else is agreed and happy with it. This is > called > business. Not all of us are here just for fun and doing this in our spare > time... some people have a personal and vested interest in MandrakeSoft's > survival. So if something like this is not asked of the cooker crowd, > then > it's not meant to be an insult to the cooker crowd, it just means that the > company is making a decision as a company. > > Can you imagine how long it would take to get anything done if we asked > every little question on cooker? I mean, where would it end? Would you > like us to ask you what font to use or what colors we should use for the > buttons in the installer because maybe, just maybe, blue offends someone > and > someone else would rather see green? > > Not everything needs to be, or should be, consulted with "cooker" first. > This is a development community, not a management community. I think it's > time people learned to deal with that. > > > | (And no, I won't bother contributing to this thread anymore) > > > > Me neither, had enough already. But it also shows, that Mandrakesoft > > does not care much what their developers and users think. Nice :-( > > Yeah, right, we don't care. Give me a break. > > What ads have to do with technical development is beyond me. > > Anyways, slashdot and the other site(s) got it all wrong. Try reading the > authoritative link I posted and get some perspective. I find the tone of > this email, no this entire thread, to be highly insulting. > > You know what? If we didn't care, there wouldn't be a cooker and one day > you would wake up to 9.2 pre-orders without having any idea of how it got > there. Think about that as well. > > Oh, and everything written in this thread is my personal perspective and > opinions and are not necessarily shared by MandrakeSoft as a company or > it's > other employees. It does not indicate MandrakeSoft's position on anything > other than the link I had previously posted (which someone didn't bother > to > read) which clarifies this entire situation. > > So if you want to start the flames and hate mail, direct them to me and > not > MandrakeSoft as a whole and I'll happily ignore you. > > Thanks. hm, great mdk apreciate everything done in cooker, but ... i really don't no where would be mdk without cooker, and all the people investing time in cooker, spare time OK, but what means spare time, i have a few minutes lates test really good this beta, let's preapre some packages & try to push them let's wait and resend until ...... mandrake WAS open for me, but this don't know what to say svetljo -- COMPUTERBILD 15/03: Premium-e-mail-Dienste im Test -------------------------------------------------- 1. GMX TopMail - Platz 1 und Testsieger! 2. GMX ProMail - Platz 2 und Preis-Qualitätssieger! 3. Arcor - 4. web.de - 5. 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