Kirjoitit viestissäsi (lähetysaika Sunnuntai 05 Lokakuu 2003 17:28): > On Sunday 05 Oct 2003 14:55, Thomas Backlund wrote: > > Jos Hulzink kirjoitti viestissään (lähetysaika Sunnuntai 05 Lokakuu 2003 > > > > 15:30): > > > This is not a matter of depending on gaim, this is a matter of willing > > > to prevent reviews from writing "Mandrake 9.2 is no good, it comes with > > > broken software" > > > > > > Mandrake has a nice update feature during install, let's use it, > > > instead of defining what a bugfix is. What is better ? A few extra kB > > > of updates, or a broken distribution ? > > > > The problem that arises here is "the bigger picture"... > > You say "a few extra kB..." > > But once you open the "bugfix/security updates" system to this, > > where does it end...?? > > > > People will start saying: "... but you updated that package ...", > > and "this package adds or modifies this or that feature that is needed... > > if we don't have it I consider it's broken... and we can't have a > > "broken" distrib..." > > Now we're comparing OpenOffice with Gaim... What these bugs are for Gaim, > is "oowriter and oocalc won't start" for OpenOffice. (Which actually > happened to me in RC2, but happened to be fixed in time). I.e. buggy enough > to make the package unusable for most people. >
Maybe a bad comparision, but the point is that different users has different opinions of what's important to get as an update.... > > so where do you draw the line...? > > and since all packages always gets updated with more features, > > or feature enchancements... > > To be honest: for me, the sky is the limit, but it's easy talking with a > cable connection. But to draw a line: most packages have a distinction > between bugfix releases and feature releases. Ok, of course with Gaim we > got the exception to this rule... > > > today gaim, tomorrow OpenOffice.org final..., and then ... > > > > and suddenly the updates mirrors are not a few kB more... instead you > > will be calculating the updates in MBs, then in GBs .... > > For some reason I immedately must think about the famous Redmond OS service > packs, sometimes 100 MB in size. You happily download those, for they fix > bugs. > Yeah, but we don't have to try to be as "bad" as them... ;-) and remember that all those customers (atleast the legal ones) has already paid for their product, something that you can compare to the club account ( see below...) and IMHO that's something that people don't really like either especially on slow dial-up lines... > > So IMHO here comes the power of an Club membership..., > > > > join the club and you will most likely get the downloads there... > > and all are happy... (you get what you pay for... remember...) > > You say, become a club member. Ok, fair. Problem is, when I Mr newbe user > download Mandrake, I see a buggy distro, and no updates. In the first > place, I see nowhere that many problems are solved if I pay (and I'm > reluctant to pay, for Mandrake is buggy, and who tells me that my problems > are gone after I paid ?), in the second place, after I paid, the manual how > to get the club updates in, is practically non existent (I found something > deep in a forum once). > If you have a club account, after the installation, upon first boot, the Fist Time Wizard will help you set up your Club account, and automatically add the club download source to the installer, and so you will be able to upgrde... > Users are willing to pay for something good, not for something bad that > mabye gets better after they paid. To quote you: "join the club and you > will most likely get the downloads there". I don't see whether that is > true, so I should just pay and hope ? Sorry, that's not the way customers > think in 2003. > I made a Bad choice of words... most packages that have had a high demand has been built and uploaded to Club AFAIK... > What I am really discussing is the way users see MandrakeSoft, that almost > bankrupt company with a rather cool distro that needs all money it can get. > The problem with any linux distribution is that the Download Edition is in > fact your advertisement. And bad advertisement doesn't sell. And selling is > essential for MandrakeSoft. > OTOH many of the users of Download Edition does not ever buy a package or become a club member anyway, wich means it does not generate any income there either... > Maybe -but that's too late now- it is an option to add a feature during the > install period: Enter MandrakeClub membership ID / Passwd (or registration > code) to get less critical updates. I can live with paying for some > updates, if only you can make clear to the customers what they gain after > paying. Show them a list of updates only available to members... or > something... > > Jos this is alrerady done by the first time wizard... and we do have "update" CD's every 6 months, with the latest and greatest software... ;-) ... -- Regards Thomas
