I've see a LOT of great suggestions from the community here on ways this could have been handled better, why am I not seeing a response from Valve, or am I missing it? Who here is speaking on Valve's behalf on this issue. Or does Valve not think this is an issue?
+LarcenII - Representing the hardworking server ops who don't have time to read instructions, eulas and policies but really want to follow the rules and want everyone to just get along. On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 4:17 AM, <[email protected] > wrote: > Send Csgo_servers mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/csgo_servers > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Csgo_servers digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: GSLT continually revoked for no reason! (BReeZboii .) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 11:15:47 +0100 > From: "BReeZboii ." <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Csgo_servers] GSLT continually revoked for no reason! > Message-ID: > < > caoape_nami0m90wukhsuy9qypq7jfo2ey5o9ak4gtdizgmp...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Marcin > > I just remember when i read the guidelines i immediately thought "What > about custom player skins, custom glove skins". I still think there are > some broad untouched areas. > > Also, if it's allowed to use valve's hl2 packages for sounds, sprites etc. > (This might be a bit beyond topic), but after this "copyright" nonsense > within their own game i could only be more concerned about everything > customl made on a server and things that we use from the game itself, but i > might just be overthinking it now. > > On 7 March 2016 at 10:54, Marcin Paterek <[email protected]> wrote: > > > BReeZboii, > > > > I totally agree Valve could give some kind of warning to server owners. > As > > far as I remember, the first ever ban wave (back in 2015) wasn't > permanent. > > So printing some kind of warning in the logs or even giving a short, > > 24-hours ban, would give us a fair chance to look into the files and find > > out what's wrong. I believe some people may be banned because they are > not > > aware of how their plugins behave. > > > > But I don't agree with giving more specific set of rules. While it would > > be better for now, probably in a week, a month or a year somebody would > > find another method of doing forbidden things. And we would be back into > > the topic, discussing new set of rules, and so on. A huge waste of time > for > > everybody, since everytime you'd have to review all your plugins to check > > if they follow new guidelines. > > > > Regards, > > Marcin > > > > 2016-03-07 10:16 GMT+01:00 BReeZboii . <[email protected]>: > > > >> Marcin, > >> > >> Even if you're correct about owners having to double check their stuff, > >> which i am sure most do. Then double checking every single piece of > code, > >> asking in plugin topics etc isn't just a big hassle, it's also an > >> impossible task for most people. Having servers can, and mostly is a > lot of > >> work already. > >> > >> Valve should make proper guidelines and be more specifik. They did > >> release the "guildelines" ( > >> http://blog.counter-strike.net/index.php/server_guidelines/), but i > >> still believe that this is far from enough. > >> > >> It's just so stupid that everyone have to panic, people that willingly > >> contribute to the game community this much, are being forced to be > anxious > >> to whatever they put on their server. Not to mention a spoiled person in > >> theory could put some "unallowed" code inside a plugin file and share it > >> with people so they get a ban. > >> > >> I totally understand valve's reason to add the GLST whatsoever, but they > >> surely haven't briefed us properly. They should just warn us a week > before > >> with a red popup box on our profile telling us that we have some > >> code/plugin that we should fix/remove, and if we don't do so within x > >> amount of time, they will give maybe a 2-4 months server ban. > >> > >> On 5 March 2016 at 02:21, Marcin Paterek <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >>> Max, > >>> > >>> I'm on the same side of the barricade as you do. I am also a server op > >>> who tries to fullfill all the rules. But let me ask: what did you do to > >>> check if you are fine with the rules? Did you read all your plugins' > code > >>> or even if you can't, have you tried to ask in their topics "Hey, I > would > >>> like to ask - does your plugin do something with items that could > >>> potentially result in a GSLT ban?". There was a lot of unnecessary > trash > >>> talk coming to the list in the last few weeks - and I bet if we talked > to > >>> each other which plugins did we use and who was banned, we could help > each > >>> other and identify where the problem is. But it seems to be easier > just to > >>> offense people, say that sb is stupid or whatever, and just write "I AM > >>> OKAY AND I WAS BANNED INNOCENTLY". > >>> > >>> I'm not saying Valve is 100% okay, because as I wrote before - there > are > >>> still some servers with knives etc. which doesn't seem to be banned. > But I > >>> guess one of the purposes of this list is to help each other, to talk > with > >>> other server ops, and not to prove how dumb other people are. > >>> > >>> M. > >>> > >>> 2016-03-04 22:03 GMT+01:00 Max Krivanek <[email protected]>: > >>> > >>>> A combination of the two approaches would have been more effective. A > >>>> SourceMod that disallows what Valve doesn't want, with the option > flag like > >>>> it has now. That way the server operators trying to abide by Valve's > terms > >>>> could have something to clearly define what wasn't allowed. Then a > system > >>>> for banning servers that don't follow those rules would have a lot > less > >>>> issues. > >>>> > >>>> We didn't find any of the props that are disallowed in any of our own > >>>> plugins. So we can only assume it was a 3rd party plugin we were > using > >>>> that caused the GSLT ban in the first wave. Since then we've > basically > >>>> stripped the servers down to the core plugins. Players were quite > unhappy > >>>> as a result. But since we didn't know what plugin triggered the ban, > and > >>>> Valve themselves won't identify what triggered the ban, we didn't > know what > >>>> else to do. > >>>> > >>>> On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 2:08 PM, Nicholas Hastings < > >>>> [email protected]> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Full disclosure - They did try to work with us on this before GSLTs > >>>>> were even officially introduced to CS:GO. They wanted to know if we > were > >>>>> willing to just add the blocks to SourceMod, without checks > necessarily > >>>>> being added to CS:GO itself. > >>>>> > >>>>> Our initial position was that while we weren't necessarily against > it, > >>>>> we didn't think it would be effective and could fork the community > to an > >>>>> extent. With SourceMod being open source, it would be rather easy for > >>>>> someone to just remove the checks and then run and/or distribute a > version > >>>>> without them. > >>>>> > >>>>> We then shortly relaxed our stance to try to be cooperative and asked > >>>>> what specifically was desired to be blocked, but were not given a > response. > >>>>> I believe that was just a tacit agreement that it wouldn't be > effective. > >>>>> > >>>>> Fast forward to now, a specific list would still be nice to better > >>>>> protect users from possibly unintentionally running something that > could > >>>>> get their account's GSLTs banned. > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Nicholas Hastings > >>>>> AlliedMods.net <http://www.alliedmods.net> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Max Krivanek <[email protected]> > >>>>> Friday, March 4, 2016 2:47 PM > >>>>> It is indeed not SourceMod team's duty. But its not like Valve gave > >>>>> the SourceMod team a chance to work with them to help prevent > accidental > >>>>> bans. Its not like these entity properties scream "do not touch > me." And > >>>>> since when we develop plugins we're trying to figure out how things > work, > >>>>> we might end up touching one of those properties. Or downloaded a > plugin > >>>>> that touched one of these properties. Not for malicious reasons. > >>>>> > >>>>> GSLT is not an effective or desirable system. > >>>>> > >>>>> And the gunmaker comparison is really off. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Csgo_servers mailing list > >>>>> [email protected] > >>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/csgo_servers > >>>>> Marcin Paterek <[email protected]> > >>>>> Friday, March 4, 2016 1:52 PM > >>>>> It is not a SourceMod team duty to provide you a way NOT to break the > >>>>> rules. (They did, because they are nice guys). It is your decision > to use > >>>>> 3rd party software (such as plugins), and you put it on your > machine. You > >>>>> can't blame a gunmaker for somebody being shot. If you were hosting > the > >>>>> game with just Valve tools, how would you even be able to break the > rules? > >>>>> And if you are still messing with items after over half of the year > since > >>>>> new rules have been enforced, I really see no point in skipping one > or > >>>>> another community just because it's small. It's not about the size, > it's > >>>>> about following rules. > >>>>> > >>>>> But in some part I agree with you - the GLST bans for now are > >>>>> ineffective, because there are still multiple servers with knives > and other > >>>>> forbidden things. This is something Valve could improve. > >>>>> > >>>>> Cheers, > >>>>> M. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Csgo_servers mailing list > >>>>> [email protected] > >>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/csgo_servers > >>>>> Larcen III <[email protected]> > >>>>> Friday, March 4, 2016 12:15 PM > >>>>> > >>>>> I completely agree. This entire *debacle *could have been avoided if > >>>>> a sourcemod required update had been* created first instead of last*. > >>>>> I'm furious over the situation drama that's a *direct result* of > >>>>> Valve's *gross mismanagement*. This is a* PR blunder *and someone > >>>>> should speak up and take some responsibility for having almost zero > >>>>> foresight. > >>>>> > >>>>> *What's more frustrating, is that is seems as if Valve assumes think > >>>>> we're mad about not having knives or skins plugins*. We (I speak for > >>>>> the larger part of the community) wish to abide by any rules set > forth by > >>>>> Valve in the first place. We really do want to get along. It's a few > bad > >>>>> apples out there who are the problem, and the attention should be on > them, > >>>>> not *US*. > >>>>> > >>>>> Why are regular small community servers being *brutally punished*, > >>>>> while the abusers who are the reason behind Valve's action, are still > >>>>> running their servers with the knife and skin mods, even at this > moment. > >>>>> > >>>>> *100% INEFFECTIVE VALVE.* Unless by effective you mean *effectively* > *annoying > >>>>> *and *distancing *the community fan base, the *foundation *of which > >>>>> has kept players (read made the playerbase more sticky) in the game > longer > >>>>> by adding new gametypes like knives only, 1v1 with levels,headshots > only, > >>>>> custom co-op maps, and surfing to name a few. > >>>>> > >>>>> *I strongly urge Valve to reconsider the GSLT program's > >>>>> implementation, as it's harmful to the community and creating a toxic > >>>>> environment.* > >>>>> > >>>>> When I posted about it in the forums, I was met with ridicule and > >>>>> hostility. > >>>>> When I contacted support, they sent a canned response and I never got > >>>>> a real human to respond. > >>>>> > >>>>> +LarcenIII > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Csgo_servers mailing list > >>>>> [email protected] > >>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/csgo_servers > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Csgo_servers mailing list > >>>>> [email protected] > >>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/csgo_servers > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Csgo_servers mailing list > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/csgo_servers > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Csgo_servers mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/csgo_servers > >>> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Csgo_servers mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/csgo_servers > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Csgo_servers mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/csgo_servers > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://list.valvesoftware.com/pipermail/csgo_servers/attachments/20160307/12907594/attachment.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Csgo_servers mailing list > [email protected] > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/csgo_servers > > End of Csgo_servers Digest, Vol 47, Issue 15 > ******************************************** > -- ╬˩ᵃʶᶜᵊᴻ³
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