Marcin

I just remember when i read the guidelines i immediately thought "What
about custom player skins, custom glove skins". I still think there are
some broad untouched areas.

Also, if it's allowed to use valve's hl2 packages for sounds, sprites etc.
(This might be a bit beyond topic), but after this "copyright" nonsense
within their own game i could only be more concerned about everything
customl made on a server and things that we use from the game itself, but i
might just be overthinking it now.

On 7 March 2016 at 10:54, Marcin Paterek <[email protected]> wrote:

> BReeZboii,
>
> I totally agree Valve could give some kind of warning to server owners. As
> far as I remember, the first ever ban wave (back in 2015) wasn't permanent.
> So printing some kind of warning in the logs or even giving a short,
> 24-hours ban, would give us a fair chance to look into the files and find
> out what's wrong. I believe some people may be banned because they are not
> aware of how their plugins behave.
>
> But I don't agree with giving more specific set of rules. While it would
> be better for now, probably in a week, a month or a year somebody would
> find another method of doing forbidden things. And we would be back into
> the topic, discussing new set of rules, and so on. A huge waste of time for
> everybody, since everytime you'd have to review all your plugins to check
> if they follow new guidelines.
>
> Regards,
> Marcin
>
> 2016-03-07 10:16 GMT+01:00 BReeZboii . <[email protected]>:
>
>> Marcin,
>>
>> Even if you're correct about owners having to double check their stuff,
>> which i am sure most do. Then double checking every single piece of code,
>> asking in plugin topics etc isn't just a big hassle, it's also an
>> impossible task for most people. Having servers can, and mostly is a lot of
>> work already.
>>
>> Valve should make proper guidelines and be more specifik. They did
>> release the "guildelines" (
>> http://blog.counter-strike.net/index.php/server_guidelines/), but i
>> still believe that this is far from enough.
>>
>> It's just so stupid that everyone have to panic, people that willingly
>> contribute to the game community this much, are being forced to be anxious
>> to whatever they put on their server. Not to mention a spoiled person in
>> theory could put some "unallowed" code inside a plugin file and share it
>> with people so they get a ban.
>>
>> I totally understand valve's reason to add the GLST whatsoever, but they
>> surely haven't briefed us properly. They should just warn us a week before
>> with a red popup box on our profile telling us that we have some
>> code/plugin that we should fix/remove, and if we don't do so within x
>> amount of time, they will give maybe a 2-4 months server ban.
>>
>> On 5 March 2016 at 02:21, Marcin Paterek <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Max,
>>>
>>> I'm on the same side of the barricade as you do. I am also a server op
>>> who tries to fullfill all the rules. But let me ask: what did you do to
>>> check if you are fine with the rules? Did you read all your plugins' code
>>> or even if you can't, have you tried to ask in their topics "Hey, I would
>>> like to ask - does your plugin do something with items that could
>>> potentially result in a GSLT ban?". There was a lot of unnecessary trash
>>> talk coming to the list in the last few weeks - and I bet if we talked to
>>> each other which plugins did we use and who was banned, we could help each
>>> other and identify where the problem is. But it seems to be easier just to
>>> offense people, say that sb is stupid or whatever, and just write "I AM
>>> OKAY AND I WAS BANNED INNOCENTLY".
>>>
>>> I'm not saying Valve is 100% okay, because as I wrote before - there are
>>> still some servers with knives etc. which doesn't seem to be banned. But I
>>> guess one of the purposes of this list is to help each other, to talk with
>>> other server ops, and not to prove how dumb other people are.
>>>
>>> M.
>>>
>>> 2016-03-04 22:03 GMT+01:00 Max Krivanek <[email protected]>:
>>>
>>>> A combination of the two approaches would have been more effective.  A
>>>> SourceMod that disallows what Valve doesn't want, with the option flag like
>>>> it has now.  That way the server operators trying to abide by Valve's terms
>>>> could have something to clearly define what wasn't allowed.  Then a system
>>>> for banning servers that don't follow those rules would have a lot less
>>>> issues.
>>>>
>>>> We didn't find any of the props that are disallowed in any of our own
>>>> plugins.  So we can only assume it was a 3rd party plugin we were using
>>>> that caused the GSLT ban in the first wave.  Since then we've basically
>>>> stripped the servers down to the core plugins.  Players were quite unhappy
>>>> as a result.  But since we didn't know what plugin triggered the ban, and
>>>> Valve themselves won't identify what triggered the ban, we didn't know what
>>>> else to do.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 2:08 PM, Nicholas Hastings <
>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Full disclosure - They did try to work with us on this before GSLTs
>>>>> were even officially introduced to CS:GO. They wanted to know if we were
>>>>> willing to just add the blocks to SourceMod, without checks necessarily
>>>>> being added to CS:GO itself.
>>>>>
>>>>> Our initial position was that while we weren't necessarily against it,
>>>>> we didn't think it would be effective and could fork the community to an
>>>>> extent. With SourceMod being open source, it would be rather easy for
>>>>> someone to just remove the checks and then run and/or distribute a version
>>>>> without them.
>>>>>
>>>>> We then shortly relaxed our stance to try to be cooperative and asked
>>>>> what specifically was desired to be blocked, but were not given a 
>>>>> response.
>>>>> I believe that was just a tacit agreement that it wouldn't be effective.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fast forward to now, a specific list would still be nice to better
>>>>> protect users from possibly unintentionally running something that could
>>>>> get their account's GSLTs banned.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Nicholas Hastings
>>>>> AlliedMods.net <http://www.alliedmods.net>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Max Krivanek <[email protected]>
>>>>> Friday, March 4, 2016 2:47 PM
>>>>> It is indeed not SourceMod team's duty.  But its not like Valve gave
>>>>> the SourceMod team a chance to work with them to help prevent accidental
>>>>> bans.  Its not like these entity properties scream "do not touch me."  And
>>>>> since when we develop plugins we're trying to figure out how things work,
>>>>> we might end up touching one of those properties.  Or downloaded a plugin
>>>>> that touched one of these properties.  Not for malicious reasons.
>>>>>
>>>>> GSLT is not an effective or desirable system.
>>>>>
>>>>> And the gunmaker comparison is really off.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Csgo_servers mailing list
>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/csgo_servers
>>>>> Marcin Paterek <[email protected]>
>>>>> Friday, March 4, 2016 1:52 PM
>>>>> It is not a SourceMod team duty to provide you a way NOT to break the
>>>>> rules. (They did, because they are nice guys). It is your decision to use
>>>>> 3rd party software (such as plugins), and you put it on your machine. You
>>>>> can't blame a gunmaker for somebody being shot. If you were hosting the
>>>>> game with just Valve tools, how would you even be able to break the rules?
>>>>> And if you are still messing with items after over half of the year since
>>>>> new rules have been enforced, I really see no point in skipping one or
>>>>> another community just because it's small. It's not about the size, it's
>>>>> about following rules.
>>>>>
>>>>> But in some part I agree with you - the GLST bans for now are
>>>>> ineffective, because there are still multiple servers with knives and 
>>>>> other
>>>>> forbidden things. This is something Valve could improve.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> M.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Csgo_servers mailing list
>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/csgo_servers
>>>>> Larcen III <[email protected]>
>>>>> Friday, March 4, 2016 12:15 PM
>>>>>
>>>>> I completely agree. This entire *debacle *could have been avoided if
>>>>> a sourcemod required update had been* created first instead of last*.
>>>>> I'm furious over the situation drama that's a *direct result* of
>>>>> Valve's *gross mismanagement*. This is a* PR blunder *and someone
>>>>> should speak up and take some responsibility for having almost zero
>>>>> foresight.
>>>>>
>>>>> *What's more frustrating, is that is seems as if Valve assumes think
>>>>> we're mad about not having knives or skins plugins*. We (I speak for
>>>>> the larger part of the community) wish to abide by any rules set forth by
>>>>> Valve in the first place. We really do want to get along. It's a few bad
>>>>> apples out there who are the problem, and the attention should be on them,
>>>>> not *US*.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why are regular small community servers being *brutally punished*,
>>>>> while the abusers who are the reason behind Valve's action, are still
>>>>> running their servers with the knife and skin mods, even at this moment.
>>>>>
>>>>> *100% INEFFECTIVE VALVE.* Unless by effective you mean *effectively* 
>>>>> *annoying
>>>>> *and *distancing *the community fan base, the *foundation *of which
>>>>> has kept players (read made the playerbase more sticky) in the game longer
>>>>> by adding new gametypes like knives only, 1v1 with levels,headshots only,
>>>>> custom co-op maps, and surfing to name a few.
>>>>>
>>>>> *I strongly urge Valve to reconsider the GSLT program's
>>>>> implementation, as it's harmful to the community and creating a toxic
>>>>> environment.*
>>>>>
>>>>> When I posted about it in the forums, I was met with ridicule and
>>>>> hostility.
>>>>> When I contacted support, they sent a canned response and I never got
>>>>> a real human to respond.
>>>>>
>>>>> +LarcenIII
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Csgo_servers mailing list
>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/csgo_servers
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Csgo_servers mailing list
>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/csgo_servers
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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