-Caveat Lector-
Eagle,
I don't quite understand the post. You're mad because the system does an
inadequate job of helping people? I would agree. Whenever this government
tries to help people, it does a miserable job. Why? Because in case you
haven't noticed, for the most part, Americans, in general, hate the poor
and the working class.
I can prove my point quite easily. The average worker in 1999 earns LESS
than she did in 1978. The wages of American working men and women have
fallen during the past twenty-five years, while the income of the top ten
percent have experienced a phenomenal increase that is unprecedented in
terms of American economic history. If you look at every other
industrialized nation in the developed world, none of them have
experienced this kind of widening gap between the haves and have-nots.
And what has our reactionary corporate dominated government done in
response to the economic downturn for the bottom eighty percent of the
American population? Worse than nothing. The social safety net has
been dismantled.
The welfare system in America is designed to be punitive and humiliating,
not helpful. Surely, you realize this. The whole
purpose of the welfare system is designed to get people back into the
workforce. Also, do you really believe it's accidental that the country
is constantly flooded with millions of illegal aliens and refugees to
be added to the surplus labor pool? Poverty must be maintained, supported
and institutionalized in our nation. Poverty and human misery is good for
business. If people are desperate enough, they'll work for anything, do
anything to stay alive. Your quarrel is not with me, Eagle, but with our
system.
I want a government that takes
into account the best economic interests of its citizens. And you know
what? We could have such a system, but we would have to reverse about
thirty-five years of misguided economic/social policies...policies pushed
by BOTH political parties.
On Sat, 5 Jun 1999, Eagle 1 wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> William Hugh said,
> >>But I don't think you, Eagle, would really enjoy living in a HUD
> subsidized project, would you? Nor would you enjoy trading places with
> a welfare recipient? Of course not.<<
>
> For your information, Mr. Hugh, I just emerged from this system of
> viscious
> bureaucracy... and did it without their help. I am not young. My children
> are
> late life children and are teenagers, now, one just graduating high school.
> So, I speak from seven years of experience, not just working with these
> people,
> but being one of the unfortunate recipients, as recently as this past
> March.
>
> No one except some caring wonderful people from my church and some help
> from a local Catholic Samaritan House, gave a damn enough
> to help me get out of this rut trap set by the government to keep people
> down.
> However, I found out that with a little perserverance, and guts, one CAN
> leave this
> travesty behind, brush themselves off and go on without the government's
> intervention.
>
> And NO, the children do not suffer. All the programs available center
> around the child,
> not the adult. The adult who has no children will get virtually nothing,
> unless they are
> seniors or totally disabled by law. I have a disability, but evidentally
> 68%+ is not
> enough to warrant some of the programs available. It has to be all or
> nothing. I was
> tired of seeing my children do without small luxuries that other people were
> giving
> their children. I saw that taking my parent's advice to get on these
> programs, to help
> me through a difficult time in my life, was a dire mistake. Because, once
> you sign the
> papers, you become a statistic at the mercy of the system. And if you
> don't bail out
> and TRY to make it without these programs, they will keep you down, and
> you
> develop a co-dependant attitude, scared to death that you cannot make it
> without
> their help. OR, they will throw you out, with nothing.
>
> I bailed, and I wish to God I'd done it five years ago... but I was afraid
> my children
> would have nothing. Now I realize my children have had nothing because I
> was on
> the system. Believe me, if I can bail and make it, anyone can!
>
> So, from experience, I disagree.
> Thanks for your comments though.
> I did enjoy reading yours and several others'.
>
> eagle1
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: William Hugh Tunstall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Friday, June 04, 1999 1:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [CTRL] Say "NO" To Socialized Health Care Today!
>
>
> > -Caveat Lector-
> >
> >Your points are well taken, E. There's always a certain percentage of the
> >population that is unable to work for a variety of physical/psychological
> >reasons...disabilities, mental health problems, etc. Also, you must take
> >into consideration that all of us are subject to "the thousand natural
> >shocks which flesh is heir to..."
> >
> >The biological clock works against human beings.... When you're in your
> >twenties, you can spend hours upon hours doing heavy physical labor, and
> >your physical body is resilient and strong enough to take the stress....
> >(Of course, years later, your body will show the effects of those carefree
> >earlier years.) But after a certain point in time, you no longer can
> >perform as well as an eighteen year old. Corporations know this....notice
> >how the preferred worker in industrial America is usually very
> >young...with few health problems... In order to take advantage of all of
> >those strong resilient younger bodies, the corporations often place their
> >factories out in the middle of the corn belt in order to take advantage of
> >that cheap and healthy labor supply. Of course, after they've used you,
> >they let you go.
> >
> >Am I against this kind of dynamic? Well, there's not much we can do about
> >it... But I would only point out that framing the issue in terms of "free
> >ride" tends to reduce things down to a very narrow, simplistic and,
> >ultimately, distorted level. The issue is a bit more complicated.
> >
> >First off, the government subsidizes businesses, bails out foreign despots
> >around the world, while it simultaneously also does a splendid job of
> >ensuring that those
> >who have will get more.... This more spectacular "free ride" at
> >taxpayer's expense tends to be ignored.
> >
> >Instead, the argument about government "handouts" tends to be centered
> >around the very visible millions of have-nots in our society. The less
> >conspicuous "welfare queens" who live in Grosse Pointe, Westchester,
> >Bel-Air and the hills above Palo Alto are not targeted.
> >
> >When the Mexican peso bailout (handout) was arranged in order to save the
> >bad investments of American investors, both political parties signed onto
> >it with hardly a squeek of protest.
> >
> >OK. So you're righteously against all of these giveaways and we find
> >common ground on this point. Great.
> >
> >I would only suggest to you that in my experience, I have never found
> >anyone who is actually proud of having to receive financial assistance
> >from the government. Of course, I've seen many lazy and
> >dishonest workers...individuals who do not have a strong work ethic and
> >who
> >ARE interested in abusing the system. Sure. I don't deny that...nor will
> >I deny the fact that there is a "culture of poverty." But we also have
> >middle-class cheaters and bums.... so what else is new.
> >
> >But I don't think you, Eagle, would really enjoy living in a HUD
> >subsidized project, would you? Nor would you enjoy trading places with
> >a welfare recipient? Of course not.
> >
> >The majority of welfare recipients are children. They major crime is that
> >they're poor. They had the misfortune of being born to the wrong
> >parents. So, if you want to kick the hell out of the parents by
> >eliminating food stamps, go ahead. The only ones who will suffer will be
> >the children.... and until we as a nation begin to solve the structural
> >problems of the economy....you can probably expect them to grow up to be
> >the future muggers, killers and welfare cheats that we complain about
> >today.
> >
> >So, what's the answer? Well, it's definitely NOT more deregulation, MORE
> >handouts for big business, and a "free ride" for the privileged classes in
> >America. MORE "free trade" and MORE "open borders" will only continue to
> >destroy us.
> >
> >We need to change the political agenda and place American issues first on
> >the list.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >On Thu, 3 Jun 1999, Eagle 1 wrote:
> >
> >> -Caveat Lector-
> >>
> >> You know, I really can see nothing wrong with providing health care for
> >> children between the ages of -9 months, and 0 to 18 years of age. But
> after
> >> that,
> >> unless the parent(S) are totally disabled, or have a legitimate
> >> malfunction...
> >> Strong and able-bodied parents, can work, and earn, and pay for their
> own
> >> health care, just like the rest of the working class do . . .
> >> Giving a free ride is exactly what some want, for the rest of their
> entire
> >> life.
> >>
> >> I have had the experience of knowing a woman who was a fourth generation
> >> welfare
> >> recipient. Her child became a fifth generation welfare recipient... now
> >> her
> >> child is a sixth generation recipient. They don't want to go to work,
> and
> >> have no
> >> intentions of getting a further education to go to work, because they
> are
> >> happy,
> >> living on the river in a HUD subsidized house, where they pay no rent,
> and
> >> swing on
> >> the porch swing, sipping sweet tea, watching the working class come and
> go
> >> everyday.
> >>
> >> How much do you think this six generations of welfare, food stamps,
> >> health care and miscellaneous expenses, came out of YOUR tax
> >> and social security pocket??? Money you could have used in an emergency
> >> situation at one time or another. Money that is being used by the
> >> government
> >> for whatever reasons.... gaining interest for them, but not for you.
> (???)
> >>
> >> When you don't have social security to help you through the lean years of
> >> your
> >> senior life, (should you ever need that boost... )
> >> just remember and think about where it went.
> >>
> >> I still say "no" to national, socialized health care. It simply won't
> >> work, because
> >> there is a bigger generation formed and out there who doesn't want to
> work
> >> to earn it.
> >>
> >> eagle1
>
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DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==========
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance�not soapboxing! These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
========================================================================
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