On Mon, 28 Feb 2000, Missouri FreeNet Administration wrote:
> :Well, OK...thats a null statement. Most people have no idea what conditions
> :are in other nations. Why should they care? (unless they dont like where
> :they are living and want to move).
>
> (1) I would argue that there has yet to *be* an actual *Communist* state
> by which we could gauge the Communist existense.
Yes, I alluded to this in another recent message, but never came and
outright said it because I don't feel it is really important to the
points I was trying to make.
> (3) As for the statement (which I choose to take as a "stand alone", e.g.,
> not requiring the support of McG's other positions) that most Americans
> are oblivious to the conditions they themselves live in: I believe it is
> true only in the sense that we as a people very much *choose* to *fein*
> this lack of insight. I don't really understand the reasoning behind it,
> but many (I hesitate to say most, although that really is the word which
> came to mind) of the people I have had "talks" with (where such "talks"
> required this type of knowledge) seem to be somehow "proud" of this "lack
> of insight". It's like we----- I don't *know* what's it's like: I'm
> reaching for straws - but it's both very frightening, and sickening at the
> same time.
Agreed. I've been fumbling with how to get this point across too.
I know people that work their asses off, and never even get around to
questioning, say, taxes .. I know people that don't even BITCH about them!
They just sort of say, "death and taxes are certain" .. as if being taxed
out the wazoo was as certain a fact as their ultimate passing.
They don't question the things going on around them, and they are in a
weird way 'proud' of their lack of knowledge. It is not only disturbing
to me, but it angers me too .. I get so pissed off sometimes because if
just one in every ten of such people would take account of their situation
I suspect my country would be very different.
> :> and stupid like "sounds great on paper, but doesn't work in the real
> :> world." Americans condemn Communism without knowing shit about Marxist
> :> tenents, and without knowing (or even reading about) the realities of
> :> life under a Stalinist/Maoist rule.
>
> You are sounding a lot like the "average" person you are condemning
> here... Additionally, again I refer to point 1: Stalinism/Maoism is not
> necessarily Communism.
You're right .. having re-read that, I see that it didn't come out the
way I intended.
I specifically seperated Marxist ideals and Stalinist/Maoist reality
in order to draw a distinction, but failed to do so.
My error.
> Unfortunately, the "Communism" Jim is referring to here is actually
> Stalinism, and in many (*not* all - please don't try to impale me on that
> particular stake :-) ways , the US is travelling down a similar road
> politically.
You're right. The only thing that keeps me going some days is the
knowledge that if history is any indicator, a few hundred years hence
people will look back in disgust at the barbarism we engage in and
find it unthinkable that people could live this way.. and specifically
take all of the lofty ideals that I hold so dear and consider them
profane -- rejecting them in favor of some heavenly goal that I cannot
even conceive of.
Then other days I think I'm kidding myself :)
> :Wow. People making choices and seeing what happens. If you don't think
> :that basket weaving is a good profession, do something else so that you
> :can make more money. Else don't complain.
>
> Sometimes the money doesn't matter though. Then what? What about art for
> art's sake (assuming no complaining about $$)?
That is an excellant point.
> :> since we all know that companies will work your ass 39 hours a week to
> :> keep you from getting benefits, while maximizing their efficiency.
>
> That's the JOB of a corporate entity: it *exists* to make money. The
> union is no better. Sam is the same... You need to rely *on yourself*.
> If a company isn't offering what you need, *DON'T SETTLE*, look elsewhere.
> If everyone did that, the "shitbox job[s]" would come up to the minimum
> standard which the worker required.
I understand corporates have to make money .. but they can exercise
enlightened self-interest just like people can.
Yeah, but sometimes you need money so damn bad, and you need it NOW!
Like I said in another message, I come from a working-class home .. and
we hit the skids a couple of times. I had to take a job as a teen to help
pay for my basic clothes and food..
It wasn't like my parents told me "Look, Mike .. 3 months from now you're
gonna need to kick in money for groceries and buy your own clothes."
They resisted doing that as long as they could .. LONGER than they
reasonably could, really .. and then one day my Dad pulled me aside
and told me.
So, I had to go out and get a job -- and I didn't exactly have time to
look around; every teen in the universe looks for a job here or there
to get some extra coin .. competition for after-school jobs was high,
and I needed to have a paycheck in my hand by grocery day.
I was in similar situations as I got older too, as I imagine that other
people are in now.
> :> Capitalism, with its emphasis on the profit margin can't always afford
> :> to give the working poor a decent wage, therefore we need social programs
> :> to help the honest, working poor.
>
> Read any Ayn Rand lately? A little bit of enlighted self-interest would
> go a LONG way towards equalizzing the playing fields... WITHOUT theft
> (whether by Sam or Mega-Conglomerate Inc.).
Not lately, no :) .. but I have read her. And I don't have all that
much faith in egoism .. no matter the form it takes.
Michael J. Graffam ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
