On Thu, 2 Mar 2000, Tom Vogt wrote:
> anything WITHOUT context is meaningless.
No, it just may not be true in all situations. Consider cosmology,
nihilism, and pantheism for a contrary argument to this supposition.
> this is exactly what I'm saying. in MATH, or if you want to refine it
> further, in the science of numbers and base 10, 1+1=2. in other fields,
> it might be different. yet whatever it is, in many fields there is
> exactly one precisely defined truth. you can NOT make 1+1=2 untrue
> without changing the context. which is what you're doing above - and
> below:
The distinction between these fields is in your head, not the reality we
observe outside of our imagination. They're a bogus distinction. There is
no 'real' (i.e. non-anthropocentric/anthropomorphic) distinction between
physics, chemistry, and biology for example. These phonomena you refer to
are all the exrepssion of a single set of interactions, we call it the
Cosmos. Please refer to any number of books on Complexity Theory for a
better understanding of this. I can refer you to a specific tomb,
Foundations of Complexity Theory in Economics, Evolutionary Biology, and
Statistical Physics.
S.Y. Auyang
ISBN 0-521-77826-3
For another example of why such distinctions are harmful you can refer to
Lynn Margulis' 'Slanted Truth'.
If you're going to make some 'truthful' statement about one of them then
it must apply to all of them. Otherwise it isn't 'truth' it's the
consequence of a small set of situations or environmental conditions.
Confusing ones point of view with objective reality is a failing not a
feature.
> my point was that BECAUSE of that common factor, the implementation
> failed. I don't believe that the weather, astrological signs or
> momentary economic situation were responsible.
Let's take a look at Weimer Germany for a counter example, shall we? How
about the fall of the CCCP? The origins of WWI?
As to astrological signs, I suggest you look into Uganda and Idi Amin.
None of these were a single facet failure. The reality is the usual
sequence is that there is either a resource limitation or economic failure
that raises disaffection. The power brokers respond with force and
oppression. A resistance faction arises. A protracted conflict occurs
(e.g. the bush wars in Africa, "Continent Ablaze", J.W. Turner, ISBN
1-85409-128-x). In addition there is usualy some other factor such as
religion or culture that further fuels a rift between the populace.
No, government creation or failure is never a single point failure.
It's the result of the situation being so complex no group of humans (at
least so far) has been able to model it sufficiently to determine if it is
a good plan or not. Until we get better cliological tools we'll continue
in this cycle. The problem with cliology is that it has it's own
potential of abuse (and no real safeguards that I can see).
But more to the point, the fact that people who believe in fundamental
classes (I call them elitist) of people are drawn to positions of power
because it's the only real opportunity for them to act on it. This factor,
prior to demoncracy, hadn't been built into the system. In our particular
case a slow erosion has occured in the basic tenets and teaching of
democracy since Lincoln's presidency. One sure sign of such a view is a
referant to some outside aspect of humanity (e.g. how much gold you've
got) to measure humanity. There is a fundamental belief that people should
not be treated equaly by their governmental/social systems. Instead they
want to rank worth or access across some system (usualy one they believe
they individualy can dominate). It's the realization that set me against
such groups because the reality is if we trade what we got for them we get
what we had (or worse).
I must apologize that I'm going to stop here. I've got to go to work now.
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The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate
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