Got it. Will describe the changes that might be subjected to be done -
however, please note that the changes were the things that I did on my own
during the POC, so the final changes may obviously be different.

On Fri, Apr 29, 2022 at 3:57 AM Elad Kalif <[email protected]> wrote:

> I'd prefer that the Code Changes section would be more detailed. This is a
> very important part.
> I'm not sure referring to a private repo is the way to do it but even if
> you should at least list the components which are subject to changes.
> You don't need to specify every change you are going to do - only the
> critical ones where it couples with airflow core.
> You have changes for dag_proccessing, executors, scheduler_job and even
> migration to add columns.
>
> https://github.com/howardyoo/airflow/commit/cc83c2b377ac22f0e7ef82e7f59784df972037fd
> These are important
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 10:09 PM Howard Yoo <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Elad, I have updated the AIP-49 with the appropriate changes to
>> contain what you requested in your previous comments. I think the AIP is
>> fairly comprehensive and ready to be voted, unless there is any objections.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Howard
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 11:03 PM Howard Yoo <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Elad,
>>> Will take a look at it and let you know!
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Howard
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 6:35 AM Elad Kalif <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Howard,
>>>> Have you made progress with addressing the comments?
>>>> I think once points are addressed we can maybe start a vote?
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 12:39 PM Jarek Potiuk <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> > 1. I would assume the path for StatsD (dogstatsd) would be for
>>>>> deprecation - we will perhaps comment or mark it as deprecation - and
>>>>> should follow the established (or usual?) process of feature deprecation 
>>>>> of
>>>>> Airflow, once the opentelemetry is in place.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yep. Deprecation should be. And maybe accompanied with a "statsd
>>>>> open-telemetry exporter" ? I think eventually we should have just OTEL
>>>>> stats and nothing else. The current "configurable" metrics class
>>>>> should be fully replaced with "OTEL configurable" metrics. Same as
>>>>> (but that's a much longer and uncertain path) logging configuration
>>>>> should get replaced if/when OTEL logging lives to its promises.
>>>>>
>>>>> > 2. Airflow will provide its own list of 'instrumented metrics' out
>>>>> of the box - with the list specified in its documentation so that users
>>>>> would be aware of them. However, with opentelemetry, the users will also
>>>>> have the ability to add their 'custom' metrics / traces / logs to be
>>>>> collected via opentelemetry as needed. That option and how-to's should 
>>>>> also
>>>>> be documented.
>>>>>
>>>>> Good point. Actually the nice thing is that adding new metrics could
>>>>> then be done as part of task execution for example - so we should
>>>>> indeed have some libraries/tools or maybe even operator's /task
>>>>> interface should have some built-in capabilities and allow for
>>>>> declarative ways of adding metrics (but this can be added as a
>>>>> follow-up - it does not need to be described and hashed out yet IMHO -
>>>>> but we can add it to the docs as "future improvement") .
>>>>>
>>>>> > 3. A little clarification - I believe there were two POC's - which
>>>>> at the time during the first POC, it had lacked some of the features (e.g.
>>>>> traces and logs). However, in the second POC, there is a stable release of
>>>>> Traces, and beta release of logs, so things have been progressing.
>>>>> Opentelemetry is highly evolving and many things do change and get added
>>>>> relatively quickly. During my second POC (the one mentioned in the 
>>>>> attached
>>>>> PDF) I was able to validate that all of the 'key' features that we needed
>>>>> to implement opentelemetry for airflow has been released and available.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah. I concur with that Howard wrote.  What was there a few months
>>>>> ago a little "shaky", becomes more and more solid as time passes.  And
>>>>> I also spoke with a few people who are involved in OpenTelemetry
>>>>> standard and development (one of my friends is site-lead for Sumo
>>>>> Logic Poland and they take active part in that effort and I just spoke
>>>>> to him about it). Also AWS is very much vested in it as far as I
>>>>> understand - I also spoke to Google and they are very much supporting
>>>>> OTEL as industry standard. I think there is a firm industry backing
>>>>> behind OTEL and there is no way it "won't progress" or "falter". This
>>>>> is a little bit of a "leap of faith" that it will become fully
>>>>> featured for our needs, but I think what is already there is "enough"
>>>>> to justify the move and anything that comes out of Beta is a bonus.
>>>>> Eventually if things will not go fast enough for us - we can also
>>>>> actually contribute there on the "collection" level.  It will likely
>>>>> have a much better outcome than if we try to integrate airflow with
>>>>> multiple services ourselves - we will just have to make sure things
>>>>> get collected "well" - and then all the different services will more
>>>>> likely than not write exporters for it.
>>>>>
>>>>> > 4. This is a debatable topic - and I believe those may not be a part
>>>>> of the core airflow code base, but would suggest perhaps we could create a
>>>>> 'contribution' repo which may maintain those third party assets (e.g.
>>>>> Grafana dashboard, Datadog dashboard, etc.) that users may use and even
>>>>> participate in maintaining it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah. I think  this is also an opportunity for someone who is
>>>>> specializing in those or even let Grafana add it to their "portfolio".
>>>>> I can imagine there might be some basic dashboards generated by
>>>>> companies which do some kinds of integrations (and with an option of
>>>>> "come to us when you want more customizability". While we won't be
>>>>> able to endorse those, we can easily let it land in the "ecosystem"
>>>>> page of ours. I think also we can easily reach out (for example to
>>>>> Grafana to do it - in the case of Grafana, Myrle Krantz, ex Treasurer
>>>>> from ASF who I know well is a Senior Manager in Grafana responsible
>>>>> for Cloud team).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> > 5. POC may not have all the changes, as the work was to 'prototype'
>>>>> and answer questions like 'what if' when opentelemetry is in place. The
>>>>> proposal actually has link to a GIT repo that contains the changes that
>>>>> were done during the POC:
>>>>> https://github.com/howardyoo/airflow/tree/opentelemetry-poc-1 . Since
>>>>> the details of the changes would make the existing PDF even more subjected
>>>>> to TL;DR, I linked this git branch for anyone interested in the changes to
>>>>> take a look. I hope this would be sufficient.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think Elad is right that some  more details need to "surface" from
>>>>> the POC to AIP. While the changes are very little - they don't change
>>>>> any flows or logic in Airflow, it's more to "selectively" add
>>>>> collections and make sure common "Span" id is shared throughout the
>>>>> code (which I think is the biggest change).
>>>>> I think Howard, it might make sense to extract parts of the POC and
>>>>> put them as an outline of changes to implement in the "AIP".
>>>>>
>>>>> The POC is more trace of what you've done, but I think simply
>>>>> translating this into "this is what we need to do" for those who will
>>>>> just read AIP is important. Our AIP's are much more "Technical" in
>>>>> nature than most of the
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> > 6. Yes, I agree - I will update the AIP proposal to make the scope
>>>>> more clearer. Thanks for the feedback!
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah. Adding "future improvements" and especially "This is what we are
>>>>> not going to do and leave for later" is important part of every AIP. I
>>>>> think it's sometimes much more important to state what we are NOT
>>>>> going to vs. what we are going to do.
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Howard
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 1:27 PM Elad Kalif <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Thanks Howard!
>>>>> >> Sorry for the delay, this was a long read. The PDF alone is 19
>>>>> pages  :)
>>>>> >> looks very good!
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>  I have 6 questions/points to raise:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> 1. I'm not clear about what is to happen with StatsD .
>>>>> >> It states "Make OpenTelemetry and StatsD optional and
>>>>> interchangeable."
>>>>> >> But do we want to support both in the long run?
>>>>> >> It doesn't specify if we are deprecating statsD along with
>>>>> completion of this AIP.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> 2. regarding adding metrics.
>>>>> >> Do we intend to let users define their own KPIs/metrics to be
>>>>> measured or it will be a closed list set by Airflow?
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> 3. The POC specifies it uses a feature of open-telemetry (add
>>>>> metrics) which was not yet released. Do we know the timeline for the
>>>>> feature to be released?
>>>>> >> Can we vote on a plan to use something which is not yet publicly
>>>>> available?
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> 4. Are the Grafana dashboards / other dashboards to be part of the
>>>>> Airflow core code base?
>>>>> >> I wonder if this should be in a dedicated repo?
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> 5. Could you please clarify in the AIP page what changes are
>>>>> required to the Airflow code base?
>>>>> >> Some of them appear in the PDF but I'm not sure if that is all of
>>>>> them?
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> 6. The PDF has several open questions/ideas.
>>>>> >> I think it would be best to add to the AIP a scope paragraph
>>>>> listing what will be included in the first phase and what is left for 
>>>>> other
>>>>> phases.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> On Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 4:26 PM Jarek Potiuk <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Or maybe that people are so stunned by the beauty and usefulness
>>>>> of it
>>>>> >>> that they cannot even say a word :)
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 11:37 PM Howard Yoo <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>> > I think it may mean all is well, perhaps :-)
>>>>> >>> > Howard
>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>> > On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 9:29 AM Jarek Potiuk <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>> >> Hello everyone,
>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>> >> Would be great to get some comments and reviews  - especially
>>>>> from
>>>>> >>> >> those who are users and are doing monitoring. Howard made a lot
>>>>> of
>>>>> >>> >> effort to show examples of how OTEL might help in this.
>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>> >> Otherwise, is the silence sign that all is good ?
>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>> >> J.
>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>> >> On Fri, Mar 25, 2022 at 9:53 PM Jarek Potiuk <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >> >
>>>>> >>> >> > And let me add to it - we laid some foundations for it with
>>>>> Melodie
>>>>> >>> >> > Ezeani - the Outreachy intern where we did some internal
>>>>> integration
>>>>> >>> >> > work that let us understand the challenges and state of
>>>>> >>> >> > open-telemetry.
>>>>> >>> >> >
>>>>> >>> >> > I am super excited about what open-telemetry can bring to
>>>>> Airflow -
>>>>> >>> >> > both short term (in metrics and instrumentation) and longer
>>>>> term - in
>>>>> >>> >> > logging when logging is mature enough.
>>>>> >>> >> >
>>>>> >>> >> > The open-telemetry mov is at the heart of the principles we
>>>>> have -
>>>>> >>> >> > making Airflow "modern" but at the same time delegating
>>>>> what's not
>>>>> >>> >> > "core" to those who can do it better. Open Telemetry is
>>>>> precisely
>>>>> >>> >> > about that,
>>>>> >>> >> >
>>>>> >>> >> > Howard particularly brought a great experience from using Open
>>>>> >>> >> > Telemetry before and making some good judgements and POC on
>>>>> the
>>>>> >>> >> > metrics produced by Airflow and how they can be useful from
>>>>> the
>>>>> >>> >> > "maintainer value" side. I looked at it from the technical
>>>>> integration
>>>>> >>> >> > POV - and Melodie helped to validate some of the assumptions
>>>>> and
>>>>> >>> >> > expose some of the technical challenges.
>>>>> >>> >> > The composite result is good, but we are looking with Howard
>>>>> on some
>>>>> >>> >> > insightful comments and critique - especially from the users
>>>>> of
>>>>> >>> >> > Airflow!
>>>>> >>> >> >
>>>>> >>> >> > I look forward to more cool stuff on Airflow!
>>>>> >>> >> >
>>>>> >>> >> > J.
>>>>> >>> >> >
>>>>> >>> >> > On Fri, Mar 25, 2022 at 9:39 PM Howard Yoo <
>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >> > >
>>>>> >>> >> > > Hi all,
>>>>> >>> >> > >
>>>>> >>> >> > > I am pleased to announce the start of the discussion for
>>>>> the new AIP draft that was recently been published:
>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/AIRFLOW/AIP-49+OpenTelemetry+Support+for+Apache+Airflow
>>>>> >>> >> > >
>>>>> >>> >> > > Jarek Potuik and I have been discussing about this proposal
>>>>> since early this year. During that time, we worked together on drafting
>>>>> this proposal, as well as doing another round of mini-POC to refresh and
>>>>> test on feasibility of OpenTelemetry on Apache Airflow.
>>>>> >>> >> > >
>>>>> >>> >> > > As the POC was successful in terms of testing the
>>>>> OpenTelemetry on Airflow, we would like to expand the discussion to a 
>>>>> wider
>>>>> user community here this mailing list to gather more consensus, comments,
>>>>> and feedbacks regarding this AIP.
>>>>> >>> >> > >
>>>>> >>> >> > > Sincerely,
>>>>> >>> >> > > Howard and Jarek
>>>>>
>>>>

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