Agreed. Folks are always asking how things like Camel compares to X. On 4 May 2011 15:33, Claus Ibsen <claus.ib...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 4:24 PM, Hadrian Zbarcea <hzbar...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Mule is also an open source project and that had more of a relevance when >> Camel started and was a Mule competitor. That page can go away too. >> > > I think thats a mistake. > > As a person who goes to conferences and give talks about Camel. I hear > always how does Camel compare to X. Where X is Mule / Spring > Integration etc. And they also ask how does Camel position itself > against IBM or Oracle SOA platforms etc. Being able to have a FAQ > entry for that makes sense. And at least maybe provide some links to > 3rd party discussions / articles etc / stackoverflow QA etc would give > the end user some value. > > An alternative is the end user end up reading some FUD pages that > talks about Camel and X. By having a FAQ we can help the user links > that are not FUD. > > > > >> As James brilliantly stated: let's think of the Camel user's needs and >> address them. For needs that go beyond a developer's need to understand and >> use Camel, such as getting support or extra tools, the Camel community can >> add subtle hints (on the Support page as mentioned), just because we're nice >> guys, but going beyond that is wrong. That's not our mission/role. It may be >> your role as individuals/employees. Blog about it! >> >> Hadrian >> >> >> On May 4, 2011, at 4:38 AM, Claus Ibsen wrote: >> >>> On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 9:21 AM, Rob Davies <rajdav...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> I've corresponded with Hadrian about this off list. >>>> >>>> Whilst I understand the sentiment, this policy certainly wasn't clear to >>>> me or other PMC members. Whilst there are occasional links to external >>>> information, mainly at FuseSource, these are historical and done in the >>>> context of providing information to new users and developers whilst we >>>> growing the Camel community, to be one of the most successful and widely >>>> used projects at Apache today. This isn't unique to Apache Camel, its a >>>> methodology we've successfully followed whilst initiating and growing >>>> ActiveMQ, ServiceMix, Karaf and CXF - to get as much information into >>>> users hands as early as possible, from whatever source that maybe. >>>> Given where Camel is today, its absolutely right to have a level playing >>>> ground - but what I would like to see is that this policy is clearly >>>> understood by everyone - and not handled in off list conversations. >>>> >>>> I would like to propose that from now on all links to 3rd party >>>> distributions or usages of Apache Camel in a 3rd party product are put >>>> into (but not limited to) the following 4 categories: >>>> >>>> 1. support >>>> 2. Articles >>>> 3. Tutorials >>>> 4. Tools >>>> >>>> And there is a grace period (till end of June 2011) to move links to >>>> external information to one of these areas by the authors, else it they >>>> will be deleted. >>>> >>> >>> What about FAQ? >>> >>> Thinking about it, it would make sense to be able to refer to 3rd >>> party products or companies from a FAQ. >>> For example we already do this by the - How does Camel compare to >>> Mule. Where Mule is a product from MuleSoft. >>> http://camel.apache.org/how-does-camel-compare-to-mule.html >>> >>> >>> >>>> Here's my +1 >>>> >>>> On 3 May 2011, at 16:52, Hadrian Zbarcea wrote: >>>> >>>>> No, there are things that are not up to the community to decide. I drew >>>>> attention when some changes were made that that was a mistake and my >>>>> impression was that the point was well taken. I also mentioned that if >>>>> changes won't be removed by their authors I will. That was months ago. If >>>>> anything, I can be blamed for not making these changes earlier. >>>>> >>>>> The Apache Camel project has a designated place to inform the users >>>>> community of commercial offerings [1]. And there are also the articles >>>>> [2] and tutorials [3] pages that can be used (within reason). Everything >>>>> else a commercial organization has to say about offerings related to the >>>>> Apache projects can be done on their site. >>>>> >>>>> I hope this clarifies it, >>>>> Hadrian >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CAMEL/Support >>>>> [2] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CAMEL/Articles >>>>> [3] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CAMEL/Tutorials >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On May 3, 2011, at 11:36 AM, Claus Ibsen wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi >>>>>> >>>>>> This post is addressed to Hadrian who has been deleting and editing >>>>>> web pages from Apache Camel (today), >>>>>> which seems to be related to the fact those pages had information about >>>>>> Fuse. >>>>>> >>>>>> I would like to call out that such actions should have been discussed >>>>>> in the public at first and agreed upon by the community. >>>>>> >>>>>> Most of the information has been there for a long time and its related >>>>>> and relevant for Apache Camel. >>>>>> And of use for people who look into what Camel is. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Claus Ibsen >>>>>> ----------------- >>>>>> FuseSource >>>>>> Email: cib...@fusesource.com >>>>>> Web: http://fusesource.com >>>>>> CamelOne 2011: http://fusesource.com/camelone2011/ >>>>>> Twitter: davsclaus >>>>>> Blog: http://davsclaus.blogspot.com/ >>>>>> Author of Camel in Action: http://www.manning.com/ibsen/ >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Claus Ibsen >>> ----------------- >>> FuseSource >>> Email: cib...@fusesource.com >>> Web: http://fusesource.com >>> CamelOne 2011: http://fusesource.com/camelone2011/ >>> Twitter: davsclaus >>> Blog: http://davsclaus.blogspot.com/ >>> Author of Camel in Action: http://www.manning.com/ibsen/ >> >> > > > > -- > Claus Ibsen > ----------------- > FuseSource > Email: cib...@fusesource.com > Web: http://fusesource.com > CamelOne 2011: http://fusesource.com/camelone2011/ > Twitter: davsclaus > Blog: http://davsclaus.blogspot.com/ > Author of Camel in Action: http://www.manning.com/ibsen/ >
-- James ------- FuseSource Email: ja...@fusesource.com Web: http://fusesource.com Twitter: jstrachan, fusenews Blog: http://macstrac.blogspot.com/ Connect at CamelOne May 24-26 The Open Source Integration Conference http://camelone.com/
