Le mercredi 20 mai 2015 00:55:47 sebb a écrit : > On 19 May 2015 at 23:52, Hervé BOUTEMY <herve.bout...@free.fr> wrote: > > Le lundi 18 mai 2015 14:03:39 Sergio Fernández a écrit : > >> Hi guys, > >> > >> I have to admit I'm a bit lost with the development here; I do not have > >> that much time, things change quite fast and discussions are a bit hard > >> to > >> follow. Hervé has done a great work; so some guidelines where I can > >> contribute would help me a lot. > >> > >> One question Hervé, do all rdf files at > >> https://projects-new.apache.org/doap/ are automatically generated or > >> copied > >> from svn? > > > > these ones are automatically generated from committer-info.txt by > > parsecommittees.py > > > > http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/comdev/projects.apache.org/scripts/import/par > > secommittees.py > > > > what I still don't know is what is expected handwritten data in the PMC > > data files > > That is described here: > > http://projects.apache.org/docs/pmc.html yeah, I found and now understand: I tried to improve explanations to fix why I didn't understand explanations before (even if I read them multiple times) and was confused between projects DOAP files and committees PMC descriptor files
There are still confusing parts, IMHO: - PMC entry under "DOAP Files" section - "PMC descriptors" section in http://projects.apache.org/guidelines.html But probably it's not really time to invest in projects.a.o since I hope we'll be able to switch to projects-new.a.o I just added committee.html separate from project.html, and made different links for PMCs and projects: https://projects-new.apache.org/projects.html?pmc > > > and if we really should try to generate such pmc.rdf files instead of > > reading content from > > http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/infrastructure/site-tools/trunk/projects/ > > pmc_list.xml > Most of the PMC data files are basic place-holders, but the syntax > allows PMCs to create and maintain their own RDF files. > > Do we really want to prevent them doing so? the only information that require manual entry is charter: everything else can be automated, which will be easier and give better accuracy > > Maybe the solution would be to ignore the dummy references such as > > <asfext:pmc rdf:resource="http://{tlp}.apache.org/"; /> yes, this dummy reference is a problem since it's "magic" > > and instead generate the required info from other sources. > > However, I don't know whether there is a canonical source for deriving > the internal name and home page of a PMC from its full name > e.g. > Apache Portable Runtime => apr & http://apr.apache.org/ > Apache HttpComponents => httpcomponents & http://hc.apache.org/ > > There are other such examples where the conversion cannot readily be > automated. [Except by maintaining a list of the exceptions somewhere] I coded the few exceptions in the beginning of parsecommittees.py Now we just need to define where to maintain the charter info, and generated pmc.rdf files from committee-info.txt + this charter will be the most accurate and easy to find since it's a codified url: http://project-new.a.o/doap/{committee id}/pmc.rdf Notice that I can improve parsecommittees.py to only update rdf files and not erase charter info but only update chair and PMC members > > > I try to maintain ideas and comments in "Work in Progres" section of about > > page: https://projects-new.apache.org/about.html > > Might be easier to use a Wiki page for that? it's temporary Regards, Hervé > > > Regards, > > > > Hervé > > > >> Cheers, > >> > >> On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 4:42 PM, sebb <seb...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > On 16 May 2015 at 08:22, Hervé BOUTEMY <herve.bout...@free.fr> wrote: > >> > > Le samedi 16 mai 2015 00:36:03 sebb a écrit : > >> > >> On 15 May 2015 at 22:08, Hervé BOUTEMY <herve.bout...@free.fr> wrote: > >> > >> > Le vendredi 15 mai 2015 14:02:52 sebb a écrit : > >> > >> >> On 14 May 2015 at 23:38, Hervé BOUTEMY <herve.bout...@free.fr> > >> > > >> > wrote: > >> > >> >> > Hi, > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > I seriously updated content: > >> > >> >> > - *every* TLP is listed, even when no DOAP file has been > >> > >> >> > written > >> > > >> > [1] > >> > > >> > >> >> > - TLP project can be displayed, even without DOAP and provide > >> > >> >> > link > >> > > >> > to > >> > > >> > >> >> > every > >> > >> >> > sub-project [2] > >> > >> >> > - when a TLP has a "main sub-project" with its DOAP file, data > >> > > >> > from TLP > >> > > >> > >> >> > and > >> > >> >> > data from DOAP subproject are clearly separate [3] > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> The URLs [1] [2] [3] use the same namespace for PMCs and projects > >> > >> >> as > >> > >> >> well as generic queries. > >> > >> >> This may cause name clashes in future - e.g. a PMC called > >> > >> >> "numbers" > >> > >> >> would clash with the "numbers" view of the data. > >> > >> > > >> > >> > not exactly: [1] is project*s*.html while the 2 others are > >> > > >> > project.html > >> > > >> > >> > so no clash between projects listing type and project/PMC > >> > >> > >> > >> Ah, OK, I'd not noticed the subtle difference. > >> > >> > >> > >> However there is still a potential name clash: the Ant PMC is not > >> > >> the > >> > >> same as the Ant project produced by the Ant PMC. > >> > > > >> > > yes, even if Ant is one of the few committees that explicitely makes > >> > > a > >> > > difference between the committee and the project even if they share > >> > > the > >> > > >> > same > >> > > >> > > name > >> > > > >> > >> >> It would be better to use distinct namespaces for distinct types > >> > >> >> of > >> > > >> > item. > >> > > >> > >> > I don't think a clash between a PMC and a project can happen: if > >> > >> > they > >> > > >> > have > >> > > >> > >> > the same id, it should be TLP's PMC, isn't it? > >> > >> > >> > >> No, they are not the same thing. > >> > >> A project is not a PMC, though they may have the same name. > >> > >> > >> > >> A PMC is a group of people; > >> > > > >> > > ok > >> > > question: are committers a second group of people attached to a PMC? > >> > > >> > Not always. > >> > The committers LDAP groups are basically used to grant permission to > >> > access code repos. > >> > Not all PMCs use them, for example Subversion (and more recently > >> > Commons) allow any ASF committer (another LDAP group) write access to > >> > their source code. > >> > > >> > Incubator committer groups are not defined in LDAP but have the same > >> > purpose as the LDAP ones. > >> > > >> > > To me, > >> > > that's the case, even if some projects have their own committers list > >> > > >> > (like > >> > > >> > > incubator projects, or I suppose the lucene-* or hive-hcatalog or > >> > > >> > xmlgraphics- > >> > > >> > > fop & xmlgraphics-batik LDAP groups representing projects that didn't > >> > > >> > write > >> > > >> > > DOAP file) > >> > > see http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html > >> > > >> > The lucene/hive/etc groups are historic and AIUI are deprecated > >> > because of the overhead of maintainance etc. > >> > It is much preferred to use social means to control who is "allowed" > >> > to update code, as is done by Subversion and Commons. > >> > > >> > > I suppose we could display the difference when some projects have > >> > > their > >> > > >> > own > >> > > >> > > committers list that is different from the TLP's committers list > >> > > >> > Not sure the distinction is useful. > >> > The current people site just displays the membership of the various > >> > different groups; it is up to the reader to know what the group does. > >> > > >> > >> a project is a software artifact. > >> > > > >> > > ok, > >> > > that's the classical way IT people talk, even if that's not the way > >> > > >> > business > >> > > >> > > people talk: I think this is a cause for major misunderstandings > >> > > between > >> > > >> > devs > >> > > >> > > and business, but that's a larger problem than ASF's internals we're > >> > > >> > working > >> > > >> > > on :) > >> > > >> > It's not just IT people - in the UK at least, one can refer to a > >> > "woodworking project" . > >> > > >> > > what is confusing, IMHO, is that we tell that a TLP == a PMC > >> > > and a PMC != projects > >> > > >> > it is a project management committee, not a project. > >> > > >> > > then a TLP != project: which in full words is "a Top Level Project is > >> > > >> > not a > >> > > >> > > project": confusing > >> > > >> > I don't think TLP is a synonym for PMC; they are different types of > >> > entity. > >> > However the terms are often used as if they are interchangeable. > >> > > >> > A software project (releaseable source code) usually starts via the > >> > Incubator. > >> > If it generates enough interest and community it will generally become > >> > a TLP overseen by a PMC. > >> > But it might become a project run by an existing PMC. > >> > > >> > > I'll create committee.html to display PMC (or "TLP") information and > >> > > let > >> > > projects link to the committee: that should be easy to do and revert > >> > > if > >> > > >> > we're > >> > > >> > > not happy with the result > >> > > >> > Good. > >> > > >> > Each PMC page also needs to include links to the project(s) it is > >> > responsible for. > >> > > >> > > notice that https://projects-new.apache.org/projects.html?pmc is > >> > > >> > confusing > >> > > >> > > with this definition in place: TLP (ie PMC with our definition) icons > >> > > are > >> > > displayed against projects > >> > > If not too risky, I'll update this part too when trying > >> > > committee.html > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > one good thing with committee.html is that we'll be able to display > >> > > >> > special > >> > > >> > > committees > >> > > > >> > >> >> > This makes more clear what DOAP is used for (and why we need > >> > > >> > projects > >> > > >> > >> >> > hand- > >> > >> >> > writing some data, but not everything) > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > I didn't update target doap urls [4] since I don't know what > >> > > >> > precisely > >> > > >> > >> >> > to > >> > >> >> > do: copy doap files that were processed, in appropriate > >> > >> >> > directory, > >> > > >> > and > >> > > >> > >> >> > with consistent filename than generated json? > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> What are the target DOAP files used for? > >> > >> > > >> > >> > I don't know: I coded what I understood from discussion with > >> > >> > Sergio > >> > >> > Fernández But I admit I don't really know if this is a good idea > >> > >> > or > >> > > >> > not > >> > > >> > >> >> Where do they originate? > >> > >> > > >> > >> > {tlp-id}/pmc.rdf is generated with info parsed from > >> > > >> > committee-info.txt by > >> > > >> > http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/comdev/projects.apache.org/scripts/import/ > >> > par > >> > > >> > >> > secommittees.py?view=markup (with the help of > >> > >> > http://www.apache.org/#projects-list scraped info for short > >> > > >> > description) > >> > > >> > >> > And the idea behind rdf copy was just to copy files in a uniform > >> > > >> > location > >> > > >> > >> > from > >> > > >> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/infrastructure/site-tools/trunk/projec > >> > ts > >> > > >> > >> > /files.xml to ease DOAP finding just an idea > >> > >> > > >> > >> > Regards, > >> > >> > > >> > >> > Hervé > >> > >> > > >> > >> >> > Feedback expected :) > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > Regards, > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > Hervé > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > [1] https://projects-new.apache.org/projects.html?pmc > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > [2] https://projects-new.apache.org/project.html?commons > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > [3] https://projects-new.apache.org/project.html?ant > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > [4] https://projects-new.apache.org/doap/
