Bravo. Brilliant.
Owen Rubel oru...@gmail.com On Fri, May 6, 2022 at 7:26 AM me <m...@emangini.com> wrote: > Happy Friday/Saturday esteemed colleagues and collaborators! > > I kicked off the first steps by reaching out to the legal team to > understand the risk/worst case scenario. I’m attempting to gain a better > understanding to the question: “What if the choice is taken away from us, > through litigation?” > > My thought process is the following: > > Irrespective of social climate, level of effort, etc. there is a worst > case scenario represented by the ever present risk. Before we embark on any > journeys of epic proportions for the greater good, it’s helpful to define > the stakes and understand our primary responsibilities: our community. > > I think it’s a fair assumption that this will help level set conversations > going forward, as well as to provide us a next question: “Given the defined > risk, what is its magnitude?” (i.e. is it a 1 in a billion lightning > strike, or a 50/50 coin flip). > > — > > That said, I think there is a derivative of Owen’s statements we have to > consider. > > Asking a question to parties who haven't considered that question > inevitably runs the risk of changing their perspective. If there is a gun > to be jumped, this is most likely it. If I can make a request of those > involved thus far, can you sleep on this and think about it? I think it’s > something we need to consider internally so that any outreach is approached > with care. > > It might be worth doing some internal research on Apache culture (nothing > exhaustive, but enough for us to understand tribal values) before > performing outreach (or in the extreme, from performing it altogether). At > the very least this can help us navigate away from areas that may induce > conflict, as well as to consider the wording of our inquiry. > > Walter, you seem to have a decent hold on the social impact. Do you have a > resource you can reach out to? (Or is it something you’re willing to > research to compile some facts?) > > > > From: me <m...@emangini.com> > Reply: me <m...@emangini.com> > Date: May 5, 2022 at 12:57:25 > To: dev@community.apache.org <dev@community.apache.org>, Owen Rubel < > oru...@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: A way to keep the name > > Owen, > > You’re conflating different aspects of the circumstances. > (Are you not from the US? Sorry for my ignorance. I’m just trying to > better understand your position.) > > 1.) Business Risk. > > Our brand name has a causal relationship with an indigenous people. > Regardless of our reputation or status, that indigenous people has the > claim to the naming and branding based on existing legal precedent in the > United States. This presents a business risk to the foundation and license. > It would be in the best interest of the foundation to evaluate that risk. > > This problem exists whether it is dormant or active. I’m going to hand > wave for brevity, but I’m happy to take this offline to explain it further. > > Yes, the ASF is a business. It may be a Non-Profit, Open Source Business, > but we create products that are consumed. > > Profit and intent are irrelevant. There is no barrier (legally, socially > or in business) that makes these concepts a means for separation or > dismissal of complaints should they arise. > > 2.) Social Impact. > > There have been several attempts to try to use the non-profit structure to > differentiate the ASF from sports teams. The example of sports teams is to > demonstrate social climate and its impact on businesses. > (NOTE: Jeep proactively engaged with the Cherokee nation, based on the > articles previously shared. There was no complaint.) Their effort was > derived from recognizing current social climate. > > Tying this back to business… being proactive is a due diligence factor: > “What is the risk of continuing to perform action X?” > > Again. Profit and intent are irrelevant. There is no barrier (legally, > socially or in business) that makes these concepts a means for separation > or dismissal of complaints should they arise. > > — > > To your point about jumping the gun: > > Maybe? This thread started with Walter’s sentiments. Those are derived > categorically from social impact/climate. Walter suggested that there had > been inquiries, I believe? For a moment, let’s say that there isn’t. Does > that matter? > > Social Climate is not subject to logic or math. Cherokee could flat out > endorse Jeep, and Apache could sue us. (Or vice versa). > > There is a much larger issue than just a “read the room effort” to > rebrand. We have a responsibility to the community as a whole to ensure > that the products are safe to consume going forward in the presence of > risk. Personally, this is my primary concern (and core to my involvement.) > > > > > > > > > > From: Owen Rubel <oru...@gmail.com> > Reply: dev@community.apache.org <dev@community.apache.org> > Date: May 5, 2022 at 12:11:21 > To: dev@community.apache.org <dev@community.apache.org> > Subject: Re: A way to keep the name > > This issue still is that we are jumping the gun. > > Has any REPRESENTATIVE from the Apache Nation filed a complaint or > reached > out? > > You may be creating a problem that does not exist. If we are doing good > will, it may be noticed and not seen as an issue. > > Apache Foundation is a non-profit and not a baseball team that profits > off > the Apache Nation creating offensive hand gestures, etc. > > This may be a non-issue from the start and you are creating an issue when > no REPRESENTATIVE has made a statement or complained. > > Owen Rubel > oru...@gmail.com > > > On Wed, May 4, 2022 at 11:05 AM Andrew Wetmore <cottag...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Hi, all. > > > > We have a very long thread on the possibility of changing the name of > our > > foundation, and the complex work involved. I may have missed it in the > > back-and-forth, but is there not another way forward? > > > > What if we established an offering of value to members of the Apache > Nation > > (defined by the eight tribes) that attaches a benefit to the existing > > perceived connection between our use of the word "Apache" and theirs? > Such > > a package could start small, but grow toward something that is much > more > > useful than the "one peppercorn per annum" which is the legal term in > > England to describe a nominal rent. > > > > The package could begin with elements that we already have in our hands > > made available to members of the Apache Nation: > > > > - travel assistance to attend ApacheCon > > - advanced access to the Google Summer of Code > > - assistance within our realms of expertise with technical > infrastructure > > or code-development issues the Apache Nation faces > > > > On such a basis we could solicit additional "goods" to grow the > package: > > > > - a scholarship fund to enable study in software development > > - internships with corporations that are ASF sponsors > > > > Others among you will have much better ideas than those I have just > tossed > > into the ring. Please suggest them. > > > > This approach makes a positive out of what some perceive as a negative, > as > > we grow a coincidental relationship into one of real value to the people > of > > the Apache Nation. > > > > a > > -- > > Andrew Wetmore > > > > Editor, Moose House Publications <https://moosehousepress.com/> > > Editor-Writer, The Apache Software Foundation <https://apache.org/> > > >
