+0. I think it has to grow on me. A couple of things from my end: - Have we evaluated if these new designs are an improvement on W3C's Accessibility, Usability & Inclusion? [1]. It is something that the ASF rightfully emphasises. - "there is general consensus in the community that the Flink documentation is very well-organized and easily searchable." -> That's actually not the case, there are numerous FLIPs on this topic [2] [3] which haven't been concluded/implemented. - I don't think we should put the links to the Github repo and the blog posts in the footer: these are some of the most read/visited links.
Thanks, Martijn [1] https://www.w3.org/WAI/fundamentals/accessibility-usability-inclusion/ [2] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=127405685 [3] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/FLIP-42%3A+Rework+Flink+Documentation On Mon, Jul 17, 2023 at 2:31 PM Maximilian Michels <m...@apache.org> wrote: > +1 > > On Mon, Jul 17, 2023 at 10:45 AM Chesnay Schepler <ches...@apache.org> > wrote: > > > > +1 > > > > On 16/07/2023 08:10, Mohan, Deepthi wrote: > > > @Chesnay > > > > > > Thank you for your feedback. > > > > > > An important takeaway from the previous discussion [1] and your > feedback was to keep the design and text/diagram changes separate as each > change for text and diagrams likely require deeper discussion. Therefore, > as a first step I am proposing only UX changes with minimal text changes > for the pages mentioned in the FLIP. > > > > > > The feedback we received from customers cover both aesthetics and > functional aspects of the website. Note that most feedback is focused only > on the main Flink website [2]. > > > > > > 1) New customers who are considering Flink have said about the website > “there is a lot going on”, “looks too complicated”, “I am not sure *why* I > should use this" and similar feedback. The proposed redesign in this FLIP > helps partially address this category of feedback, but we may need to make > the use cases and value proposition “pop” more than we have currently > proposed in the redesign. I’d like to get the community’s thoughts on this. > > > > > > 2) On the look and feel of the website, I’ve already shared feedback > prior that I am repeating here: “like a wiki page thrown together by > developers.” Customers also point out other related Apache project > websites: [3] and [4] as having “modern” user design. The proposed redesign > in this FLIP will help address this feedback. Modernizing the look and feel > of the website will appeal to customers who are used to what they encounter > on other contemporary websites. > > > > > > 3) New and existing Flink developers have said “I am not sure what the > diagram is supposed to depict” - referencing the main diagram on [2] and > have said that the website lacks useful graphics and colors. Apart from > removing the diagram on the main page [2], the current FLIP does propose > major changes to diagrams in the rest of website and we can discuss them > separately as they become available. I’d like to keep the FLIP focused only > on the website redesign. > > > > > > Ultimately, to Chesnay’s point in the earlier discussion in [1], I do > not want to boil the ocean with all the changes at once. In this FLIP, my > proposal is to first work on the UX design as that gives us a good starting > point. We can use it as a framework to make iterative changes and > enhancements to diagrams and the actual website content incrementally. > > > > > > I’ve added a few more screenshots of additional pages to the FLIP that > will give you a clearer picture of the proposed changes for the main page, > What is Flink [Architecture, Applications, and Operations] pages. > > > > > > And finally, I am not proposing any tooling changes. > > > > > > [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/c3pt00cf77lrtgt242p26lgp9l2z5yc8 > > > [2]https://flink.apache.org/ > > > [3] https://spark.apache.org/ > > > [4] https://kafka.apache.org/ > > > > > > On 7/13/23, 6:25 AM, "Chesnay Schepler" <ches...@apache.org <mailto: > ches...@apache.org>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do > not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and > know the content is safe. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 13/07/2023 08:07, Mohan, Deepthi wrote: > > >> However, even these developers when explicitly asked in our > conversations often comment that the website could do with a redesign > > > > > > Can you go into more detail as to their specific concerns? Are there > > > functional problems with the page, or is this just a matter of "I don't > > > like the way it looks"? > > > > > > > > > What had they trouble with? Which information was > > > missing/unnecessary/too hard to find? > > > > > > > > > The FLIP states that "/we want to modernize the website so that new and > > > existing users can easily find information to understand what Flink is, > > > the primary use cases where Flink is useful, and clearly understand its > > > value proposition/." > > > > > > > > > From the mock-ups I don't /really/ see how these stated goals are > > > achieved. It mostly looks like a fresh coat of paint, with a compressed > > > nav bar (which does reduce how much information and links we throw at > > > people at once (which isn't necessarily bad)). > > > > > > > > > Can you go into more detail w.r.t. to the proposed > > > text/presentation/diagram changes? > > > > > > > > > I assume you are not proposing any tooling changes? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
