Hi,
first of all sorry that i reply on this thread because it is a slightly
different topic. But i would like ask some questions to clarify the
situation.
On 1/15/10 9:30 AM, eric b wrote:
Hi Jürgen,
Sorry for the delay, but I don't have a lot of time for mails.
Le 12 janv. 10 à 10:57, Juergen Schmidt a écrit :
Not exactly : we did a lot, but outside of the OOo website.
that is my first question, why?
Since two years, the Education Project, received a lot of bad knocks
(mostly me in fact) and the strategy was to block every try to create
something new.
i don't know exactly what you mean, can you please so kind to provide
concrete examples. It would really help to understand what went wrong if
we know the details.
Worse: some projects derivated the Education part, what is not really
kind from a "Community" point of view.
again, can you please give concrete examples what you mean here.
Back to your question, externalize everything was an answer to that: do
it fastly, without bad constraints, and innovate for true. And proof the
current model is .. sub optimal.
mmh, it's an opinion and strategy that i personally don't really
understand and from a project perspective don't really like. If there
are problems, then they should be addressed in some way and we should
try to find a solution together.
The fact is, Education Project innovated a lot, and since it has some
visibility, more bad knocks arrive.
again Eric without being a little bit more concrete, such comments are
difficult to understand. And i would really like to understand it.
Anyway many activities driven from the education project are very
interesting and promising. And i am sure many people are interested to
help and to make it a success. But many things overlap with other areas
and it is important to work together as one project. That is one reason
why i always see our project structure as a virtual and internal one.
For me there is only one global project and that is OpenOffice.org.
OpenOffice.org with all the sub-projects and different activities in
different areas.
Creativity
needs freedom, and OpenOffice.org website does not exactly provide the
tools we need.
no objections for freedom but is this really true and have you tried it.
Yes, it is : we have extremely efficient and active lists, outside of
the common organisation, and our work ( through OOo4Kids) is well
appreciated. The Campus Libre is promising too.
nobody says that these external communication channels are not
effective. The question is what exactly did you miss on the OOo website.
For example what was the reason for moving the discussion away from the
existing mailing lists of the education project? I don't understand this
without knowing details.
Other good example is OOo4Kids : we created a good communication with
OLPC community, and Gdium community too.
good to hear that
All this is extremely good for OpenOffice.org Project, and extends the
community.
In case of your mentioned http://educoo.edulibre.org/ i see a drupal
system the same framework that we use for our extension site.
Indeed. FYI, EduLibre is yet another french non profit association.
We have several different services under services.openoffice.org. Can
you give concrete details please.
The reason is this is still experimental, and we work with other non
profit associations (not only EduLibre), and we can not decide everything.
Should it be considered or evaluated again because the education
project is an official OpenOffice.org project
What should be considered again ? The experimental Forge ? Again, this
is still experimental, and Edulibre is another non profit association.
What is the problem ? Isn't OpenOffice.org a Community ?
When I read you, I have some doubts ...
If you mean the Education Project : since two years, it is blocked as
"Incubator project", but maybe things could improve, indeed.
and from my point of it should run under the OOo umbrella and the
typical OOo design.
What means "OOo "Umbrella" term exactly ?
for me it is that all the services should be under the same domain
(openoffice.org or services.openoffice.org) and should have a common
design. And yes there is still room for improvements in the area of a
common design. But the same domain shouldn't be a problem and it simply
gives a better picture to the outside. But that is my personal opinion.
For example, I read "NeoOffice" is supported in the official
OpenOffice.org forums. Why BTW ? So why not officialy support OOo4Kids
in the forum too ? OOo4Kids is under LGPL V3 license, and this is really
more compatible with OOo than NeoOffice :-) ?
i don't know and of course i see no reason why OOo4Kids shouldn't be
supported there as well. Have you tried it?
Back to design : -personal opinion- I don't like Sun design, sorry.
Probably because I'm not good with design myself ... :-)
I think and as far as i know the OOo webpage (the current design) was
mainly designed by the community. It isn't Sun's design.
Nevertheless, thanks for your point of view. Mine is : OOo umbrella mean
Sun corp, and if it is commonly accepted that OpenOffice.org is a
"Community Project", then, other projects, identified as "friends"
should belong too.
There is an ONG backing it up with EducOO and there is some real work
happening on some areas of education including OOo4Kids
(http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/) and Efforts. But some are still being
developed like the "CampusLibre" project.
Just FYI :
- we created strong links with the schools we worked with, and around 20
students have been mentored since two years
- OpenOffice.org Education Project today counts ~ 110 members (was only
7 or 8 when I started ... )
- Campus Libre Project counts ~ 200 members :
http://campus-libre.educoo.org/index.php
my personal problem with this site is that it is french and i don't
speak french.
Strange, if I'm not wrong, the site should be localized (I'll
investigate). I remember it was working for a brazilian poeple who
wanted to join. Now, something is maybe broken, and the reason why we
did not fully translate the site is simply : resource reasons (remember
: we are not paid and do everything in our free time)
FYI, Brasilian, spanish, german, and other for sure people and some
other, have joined. Just help is needed.
- Edulibre (free Forge for collaborative work) is new and operationnal
(we'll launch it soon officially) : http://educoo.edulibre.org/
- is the XO port *not* something concrete ? FYI, OOo4Kids will be in the
next Sugar version : we created a strong link with another community
what is the XO port?
XO port is the port of OOo4Kids to the OLPC machines ( 900MHz / 256 MB
of RAM /.1GB hard disk).
thanks, i have already remembered it as well.
This port helped to extend the OOo community (no way to make OOo run on
those machines).
- Aren't ClassRooms concrete ? ( everything is on the OpenOffice.org
wiki )
they are and i think they are very useful.
The goal of the presentation was giving exposure to the whole
Education project so it couldn't be very practical.
Exactly : one hour is very limited, and the content is generic, but
dedicated presentations can be done on demand.
why haven't you replied on the FOSDEM CFP that i have send on the
education list as well.
Since 4 years already, and every year, I did a conference, or devroom at
FOSDEM for OpenOffice.org Project . That's one of my prefered events in
the year.
But this year is unfortunaly not possible, for family reason. And that's
simply why I can't propose something, nothing else (my family has always
the priority).
no problem if you can't attend in person. Your family should have always
a higher priority ;-) For me it is important that the special aspect
education is represented in some way. You don't have to and you can't do
everything on your own Eric. That is natural and no problem. Nobody
expect it. That's one reason why "together" is so important.
Responsibilities and to-dos can be shared if necessary.
Too bad that we have the education project not there or represented.
I'll ask Thorsten Behrens to represents the Education Project. Thorsten
is extremely well appreciated from the students, contributes a lot to
the Education Project, and is every day present on the
#education.openoffice.org channel. With me, he helped the students
zillions of times, and I have no doubt he will certainly accept to
replace me..
that would be good. It would be also good if you can provide some infos
for the shared presentation that we plan to run as a continuous
presentation at the booth.
I would be happy if you can provide us some information that we can at
least present at the booth.
Since I got a new -and reliable - car, I'll try to attend the friday
(afternoon, or evening), until saturday begining of afternoon (not
sure). Must discuss the thing with my wife :-)
i hope to see you there
Juergen
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