Not sure what there is to "sort out"... But of course, you are also welcome to get on the phone and sort it out as well.
On Jun 17, 2011, at 9:31 AM, Jason van Zyl wrote: > Jim, just get on the phone and sort it out. It's not that hard. > > On Jun 17, 2011, at 9:09 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote: > >> Jason, please stop confusing the issue. In both cases you mention >> below, the PMCs have been very VERY involved in tracking ALL >> trademark issues, and have been even more vigilant with those >> entities in which they are a part of as far as employment (I >> would encourage you to look over, for example, Mark Thomas' >> work the last *week* regarding the tomcatexpert stuff). >> >> If your intent is to enflame the issue, then Good Work. If your >> intent was to actually provide informative and not misleading >> data, then I would have to give you a D-. >> >> Since this is from your Sonatype Email, can I assume that you >> are sending this with your Sonatype hat on? >> >> On Jun 17, 2011, at 9:03 AM, Jason van Zyl wrote: >> >>> Doug, this is only part of the story but if we are strictly talking about >>> trademarks here then people should understand what that discussion is about. >>> >>> What Sonatype was seeking was the use of "Maven Central" as a service mark >>> in very much the same way Doug Cutting's company, Cloudera, has been >>> granted a memorandum of understanding (MOU) for the service mark "Hadoop >>> World". These service marks are for services provided to the community and >>> not intended for commercial purposes. One could argue "Hadoop World" is a >>> marketing event for Cloudera used to drive sales and raise awareness about >>> Cloudera's involvement in Hadoop, but it's an event held for the community >>> and it's free of charge. You'll notice that's it's not "Apache Hadoop >>> World", it's "Hadoop World". You can see an example of the usage here: >>> >>> http://ostatic.com/blog/cloudera-announces-hadoop-world-and-hadoop-marches-on >>> >>> You will also note that what Sonatype is repeatedly accused of which is to >>> use "Maven" and not "Apache Maven" you will notice in the link above >>> Cloudera seems to be exempt from. Not a single mention of Apache Hadoop in >>> that press release. Actually if you walk all over the Cloudera site you'll >>> find similar, if not worse abuses, all over their site. This all seems to >>> be fine for Cloudera, a company founded by Doug Cutting who is on the >>> Apache Board. Cloudera knows this and has been gradually fixing things, but >>> they were granted an MOU for "Hadoop World" and no severe action was taken >>> against Cloudera as a company. Apache is purportedly and organization based >>> on the participation of individuals so really one wouldn't expect any >>> targeted action against a company. Doug should know better than anyone how >>> these things work, working toward and eventually becoming a member of the >>> Apache Board. >>> >>> We also have the example http://www.tomcatexpert.com/ which also seems to >>> be fine, and you'll note this original infraction occurred while Jim >>> Jagielski was involved with SpringSource. Jim, as Doug, is on the Apache >>> Board. The Apache board took no severe action in the case of TomcatExpert >>> site. >>> >>> Now, I don't find any of the cases cited above as egregious >>> misappropriation of Apache property, but simply a way for companies >>> involved with Apache to get some recognition for the work they do and to >>> promote their involvement with the projects they've helped make successful. >>> These uses never particularly bothered me. What I take exception to is that >>> the fact that grants of these exceptions seem selective, Apache policies >>> regarding trademarks are made up on the fly, and that what other companies >>> have been granted at Apache, Sonatype is not. In addition, the Apache Board >>> felt the Maven PMC dysfunctional for not being more forceful with this >>> trademark issue even though the Apache Board, by example, has never been >>> this forceful with any other company as a whole. Not Wandisco, not >>> Cloudera, not SpringSource. In this regard the Maven PMC should have been >>> disbanded, but instead the board targeted a whole company. Which by >>> Apache's own philosophy of itself being a collection of individuals seems >>> rather odd to me. >>> >>> So that's a summary of the trademark issue and Doug started the >>> conversation with trademarks so I'm fine disclosing that part of the story. >>> >>> If Doug and Jim want to continue the discussion about the other major issue >>> then again, I will leave the initiation of that discussion to them. >>> >>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 7:54 AM, Doug Cutting wrote: >>> >>>> For many months the board has been asking the Maven project to obtain >>>> proper attribution from Sonatype for Apache's "Maven" trademark. >>>> Sonatype has thus far failed to comply. The Sonatype website states >>>> only that "Apache Maven" is a trademark of the ASF, not that "Maven" >>>> alone is also a trademark of the ASF. Since Sonatype seems to dispute >>>> that this trademark belongs to Apache, Sonatype employees are unable to >>>> simultaneously legally act for Sonatype and Apache at the same time. So >>>> the ASF has removed Sonatype employees from the Maven PMC in order to >>>> remove them from conflict. >>>> >>>> Doug >>>> >>>> On 06/16/2011 05:11 PM, Jason van Zyl wrote: >>>>> Jeff, >>>>> >>>>> I believe this strictly falls within the purview of the Apache Board to >>>>> explain. In particular Jim, Doug and Shane. >>>>> >>>>> Only the board has the right to reveal the business that has been >>>>> transacted on private lists. >>>>> >>>>> Rest assured that's Sonatype's commitment to Maven users and our pursuit >>>>> of innovation with respect to Maven-related technologies has not >>>>> stopped, and will not stop. >>>>> >>>>> On Jun 16, 2011, at 9:42 AM, Jeff Jensen wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Is there a forthcoming explanation for a seemingly Maven PMC shakeup? >>>>>> I find it odd that consistently excellent contributors such as Lukas, >>>>>> Brian, et al are suddenly not on the Maven PMC. This is concerning as >>>>>> these are people who have drastically improved and moved Maven >>>>>> forward. It's very concerning that a heavy committer such as Benjamin >>>>>> is no longer committing as he has done very useful, fantastic work. >>>>>> These events are very concerning for the forward progress of Maven. >>>>>> The strong temptations for competitive products, a la Gradle, do not >>>>>> allow Maven progress to stop; particularly the best progress to date >>>>>> of the past year. These events are detrimental. For us uninformed, >>>>>> what happened, why is it good, what is the plan forward behind this? >>>>>> >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org >>>>>> <mailto:dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org> >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org >>>>>> <mailto:dev-h...@maven.apache.org> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Jason >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> Jason van Zyl >>>>> Founder, Apache Maven >>>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> We all have problems. How we deal with them is a measure of our worth. >>>>> >>>>> -- Unknown >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Jason >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------- >>> Jason van Zyl >>> Founder, Apache Maven >>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl >>> --------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase it, the more it will >>> elude you, but if you turn your attention to other things, it will come >>> and sit softly on your shoulder ... >>> >>> -- Thoreau >>> >>> >>> >> > > Thanks, > > Jason > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Jason van Zyl > Founder, Apache Maven > http://twitter.com/jvanzyl > --------------------------------------------------------- > > A party which is not afraid of letting culture, > business, and welfare go to ruin completely can > be omnipotent for a while. > > -- Jakob Burckhardt > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org
