On Jun 17, 2011, at 9:46 AM, Mark Struberg wrote: > Jason! > > I bet you are well aware that the PMC is actively working on an MOU since a > few weeks. (I even was roughly walking thru the draft with a Sonatype > employee yesterday). >
I'm not well aware at all. How can anyone at Sonatype be aware of anything on the Maven PMC is doing? You're trying to reach a resolution without us being a part of it. You need to talk to Wayne and as far as I know you didn't talk to him yesterday. > So please relax a bit and stop throwing oil on the fire. I'm pointing out the facts, and giving you the fastest way to resolve the issue. > > LieGrue, > strub > > --- On Fri, 6/17/11, Jason van Zyl <ja...@sonatype.com> wrote: > >> From: Jason van Zyl <ja...@sonatype.com> >> Subject: Re: PMC change explanation? >> To: "Jim Jagielski" <j...@jagunet.com> >> Cc: "Doug Cutting" <cutt...@apache.org>, "Maven Developers List" >> <dev@maven.apache.org>, "Apache Board" <bo...@apache.org> >> Date: Friday, June 17, 2011, 1:31 PM >> Jim, just get on the phone and sort >> it out. It's not that hard. >> >> On Jun 17, 2011, at 9:09 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote: >> >>> Jason, please stop confusing the issue. In both cases >> you mention >>> below, the PMCs have been very VERY involved in >> tracking ALL >>> trademark issues, and have been even more vigilant >> with those >>> entities in which they are a part of as far as >> employment (I >>> would encourage you to look over, for example, Mark >> Thomas' >>> work the last *week* regarding the tomcatexpert >> stuff). >>> >>> If your intent is to enflame the issue, then Good >> Work. If your >>> intent was to actually provide informative and not >> misleading >>> data, then I would have to give you a D-. >>> >>> Since this is from your Sonatype Email, can I assume >> that you >>> are sending this with your Sonatype hat on? >>> >>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 9:03 AM, Jason van Zyl wrote: >>> >>>> Doug, this is only part of the story but if we are >> strictly talking about trademarks here then people should >> understand what that discussion is about. >>>> >>>> What Sonatype was seeking was the use of "Maven >> Central" as a service mark in very much the same way Doug >> Cutting's company, Cloudera, has been granted a memorandum >> of understanding (MOU) for the service mark "Hadoop World". >> These service marks are for services provided to the >> community and not intended for commercial purposes. One >> could argue "Hadoop World" is a marketing event for Cloudera >> used to drive sales and raise awareness about Cloudera's >> involvement in Hadoop, but it's an event held for the >> community and it's free of charge. You'll notice that's it's >> not "Apache Hadoop World", it's "Hadoop World". You can see >> an example of the usage here: >>>> >>>> http://ostatic.com/blog/cloudera-announces-hadoop-world-and-hadoop-marches-on >>>> >>>> You will also note that what Sonatype is >> repeatedly accused of which is to use "Maven" and not >> "Apache Maven" you will notice in the link above Cloudera >> seems to be exempt from. Not a single mention of Apache >> Hadoop in that press release. Actually if you walk all over >> the Cloudera site you'll find similar, if not worse abuses, >> all over their site. This all seems to be fine for Cloudera, >> a company founded by Doug Cutting who is on the Apache >> Board. Cloudera knows this and has been gradually fixing >> things, but they were granted an MOU for "Hadoop World" and >> no severe action was taken against Cloudera as a company. >> Apache is purportedly and organization based on the >> participation of individuals so really one wouldn't expect >> any targeted action against a company. Doug should know >> better than anyone how these things work, working toward and >> eventually becoming a member of the Apache Board. >>>> >>>> We also have the example http://www.tomcatexpert.com/ which also seems to >>>> be >> fine, and you'll note this original infraction occurred >> while Jim Jagielski was involved with SpringSource. Jim, as >> Doug, is on the Apache Board. The Apache board took no >> severe action in the case of TomcatExpert site. >>>> >>>> Now, I don't find any of the cases cited above as >> egregious misappropriation of Apache property, but simply a >> way for companies involved with Apache to get some >> recognition for the work they do and to promote their >> involvement with the projects they've helped make >> successful. These uses never particularly bothered me. What >> I take exception to is that the fact that grants of these >> exceptions seem selective, Apache policies regarding >> trademarks are made up on the fly, and that what other >> companies have been granted at Apache, Sonatype is not. In >> addition, the Apache Board felt the Maven PMC dysfunctional >> for not being more forceful with this trademark issue even >> though the Apache Board, by example, has never been this >> forceful with any other company as a whole. Not Wandisco, >> not Cloudera, not SpringSource. In this regard the Maven PMC >> should have been disbanded, but instead the board targeted a >> whole company. Which by Apache's own philosophy of itself >> being a collection of individuals seems rather odd to me. >>>> >>>> So that's a summary of the trademark issue and >> Doug started the conversation with trademarks so I'm fine >> disclosing that part of the story. >>>> >>>> If Doug and Jim want to continue the discussion >> about the other major issue then again, I will leave the >> initiation of that discussion to them. >>>> >>>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 7:54 AM, Doug Cutting wrote: >>>> >>>>> For many months the board has been asking the >> Maven project to obtain >>>>> proper attribution from Sonatype for Apache's >> "Maven" trademark. >>>>> Sonatype has thus far failed to comply. >> The Sonatype website states >>>>> only that "Apache Maven" is a trademark of the >> ASF, not that "Maven" >>>>> alone is also a trademark of the ASF. >> Since Sonatype seems to dispute >>>>> that this trademark belongs to Apache, >> Sonatype employees are unable to >>>>> simultaneously legally act for Sonatype and >> Apache at the same time. So >>>>> the ASF has removed Sonatype employees from >> the Maven PMC in order to >>>>> remove them from conflict. >>>>> >>>>> Doug >>>>> >>>>> On 06/16/2011 05:11 PM, Jason van Zyl wrote: >>>>>> Jeff, >>>>>> >>>>>> I believe this strictly falls within the >> purview of the Apache Board to >>>>>> explain. In particular Jim, Doug and >> Shane. >>>>>> >>>>>> Only the board has the right to reveal the >> business that has been >>>>>> transacted on private lists. >>>>>> >>>>>> Rest assured that's Sonatype's commitment >> to Maven users and our pursuit >>>>>> of innovation with respect to >> Maven-related technologies has not >>>>>> stopped, and will not stop. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jun 16, 2011, at 9:42 AM, Jeff Jensen >> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Is there a forthcoming explanation for >> a seemingly Maven PMC shakeup? >>>>>>> I find it odd that consistently >> excellent contributors such as Lukas, >>>>>>> Brian, et al are suddenly not on the >> Maven PMC. This is concerning as >>>>>>> these are people who have drastically >> improved and moved Maven >>>>>>> forward. It's very concerning >> that a heavy committer such as Benjamin >>>>>>> is no longer committing as he has done >> very useful, fantastic work. >>>>>>> These events are very concerning for >> the forward progress of Maven. >>>>>>> The strong temptations for competitive >> products, a la Gradle, do not >>>>>>> allow Maven progress to stop; >> particularly the best progress to date >>>>>>> of the past year. These events >> are detrimental. For us uninformed, >>>>>>> what happened, why is it good, what is >> the plan forward behind this? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org >>>>>>> <mailto:dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org> >>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org >>>>>>> <mailto:dev-h...@maven.apache.org> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Jason >>>>>> >>>>>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> Jason van Zyl >>>>>> Founder, Apache Maven >>>>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl >>>>>> >> --------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>> We all have problems. How we deal with >> them is a measure of our worth. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- Unknown >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Jason >>>> >>>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >>>> Jason van Zyl >>>> Founder, Apache Maven >>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl >>>> >> --------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase >> it, the more it will >>>> elude you, but if you turn your attention to other >> things, it will come >>>> and sit softly on your shoulder ... >>>> >>>> -- Thoreau >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Jason >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> Jason van Zyl >> Founder, Apache Maven >> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl >> --------------------------------------------------------- >> >> A party which is not afraid of letting culture, >> business, and welfare go to ruin completely can >> be omnipotent for a while. >> >> -- Jakob Burckhardt >> >> >> >> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org > Thanks, Jason ---------------------------------------------------------- Jason van Zyl Founder, Apache Maven http://twitter.com/jvanzyl --------------------------------------------------------- Simplex sigillum veri. (Simplicity is the seal of truth.)
