Email coming your way. On Jun 17, 2011, at 9:44 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote:
> Not sure what there is to "sort out"... But of course, > you are also welcome to get on the phone and sort it > out as well. > > On Jun 17, 2011, at 9:31 AM, Jason van Zyl wrote: > >> Jim, just get on the phone and sort it out. It's not that hard. >> >> On Jun 17, 2011, at 9:09 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote: >> >>> Jason, please stop confusing the issue. In both cases you mention >>> below, the PMCs have been very VERY involved in tracking ALL >>> trademark issues, and have been even more vigilant with those >>> entities in which they are a part of as far as employment (I >>> would encourage you to look over, for example, Mark Thomas' >>> work the last *week* regarding the tomcatexpert stuff). >>> >>> If your intent is to enflame the issue, then Good Work. If your >>> intent was to actually provide informative and not misleading >>> data, then I would have to give you a D-. >>> >>> Since this is from your Sonatype Email, can I assume that you >>> are sending this with your Sonatype hat on? >>> >>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 9:03 AM, Jason van Zyl wrote: >>> >>>> Doug, this is only part of the story but if we are strictly talking about >>>> trademarks here then people should understand what that discussion is >>>> about. >>>> >>>> What Sonatype was seeking was the use of "Maven Central" as a service mark >>>> in very much the same way Doug Cutting's company, Cloudera, has been >>>> granted a memorandum of understanding (MOU) for the service mark "Hadoop >>>> World". These service marks are for services provided to the community and >>>> not intended for commercial purposes. One could argue "Hadoop World" is a >>>> marketing event for Cloudera used to drive sales and raise awareness about >>>> Cloudera's involvement in Hadoop, but it's an event held for the community >>>> and it's free of charge. You'll notice that's it's not "Apache Hadoop >>>> World", it's "Hadoop World". You can see an example of the usage here: >>>> >>>> http://ostatic.com/blog/cloudera-announces-hadoop-world-and-hadoop-marches-on >>>> >>>> You will also note that what Sonatype is repeatedly accused of which is to >>>> use "Maven" and not "Apache Maven" you will notice in the link above >>>> Cloudera seems to be exempt from. Not a single mention of Apache Hadoop in >>>> that press release. Actually if you walk all over the Cloudera site you'll >>>> find similar, if not worse abuses, all over their site. This all seems to >>>> be fine for Cloudera, a company founded by Doug Cutting who is on the >>>> Apache Board. Cloudera knows this and has been gradually fixing things, >>>> but they were granted an MOU for "Hadoop World" and no severe action was >>>> taken against Cloudera as a company. Apache is purportedly and >>>> organization based on the participation of individuals so really one >>>> wouldn't expect any targeted action against a company. Doug should know >>>> better than anyone how these things work, working toward and eventually >>>> becoming a member of the Apache Board. >>>> >>>> We also have the example http://www.tomcatexpert.com/ which also seems to >>>> be fine, and you'll note this original infraction occurred while Jim >>>> Jagielski was involved with SpringSource. Jim, as Doug, is on the Apache >>>> Board. The Apache board took no severe action in the case of TomcatExpert >>>> site. >>>> >>>> Now, I don't find any of the cases cited above as egregious >>>> misappropriation of Apache property, but simply a way for companies >>>> involved with Apache to get some recognition for the work they do and to >>>> promote their involvement with the projects they've helped make >>>> successful. These uses never particularly bothered me. What I take >>>> exception to is that the fact that grants of these exceptions seem >>>> selective, Apache policies regarding trademarks are made up on the fly, >>>> and that what other companies have been granted at Apache, Sonatype is >>>> not. In addition, the Apache Board felt the Maven PMC dysfunctional for >>>> not being more forceful with this trademark issue even though the Apache >>>> Board, by example, has never been this forceful with any other company as >>>> a whole. Not Wandisco, not Cloudera, not SpringSource. In this regard the >>>> Maven PMC should have been disbanded, but instead the board targeted a >>>> whole company. Which by Apache's own philosophy of itself being a >>>> collection of individuals seems rather odd to me. >>>> >>>> So that's a summary of the trademark issue and Doug started the >>>> conversation with trademarks so I'm fine disclosing that part of the story. >>>> >>>> If Doug and Jim want to continue the discussion about the other major >>>> issue then again, I will leave the initiation of that discussion to them. >>>> >>>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 7:54 AM, Doug Cutting wrote: >>>> >>>>> For many months the board has been asking the Maven project to obtain >>>>> proper attribution from Sonatype for Apache's "Maven" trademark. >>>>> Sonatype has thus far failed to comply. The Sonatype website states >>>>> only that "Apache Maven" is a trademark of the ASF, not that "Maven" >>>>> alone is also a trademark of the ASF. Since Sonatype seems to dispute >>>>> that this trademark belongs to Apache, Sonatype employees are unable to >>>>> simultaneously legally act for Sonatype and Apache at the same time. So >>>>> the ASF has removed Sonatype employees from the Maven PMC in order to >>>>> remove them from conflict. >>>>> >>>>> Doug >>>>> >>>>> On 06/16/2011 05:11 PM, Jason van Zyl wrote: >>>>>> Jeff, >>>>>> >>>>>> I believe this strictly falls within the purview of the Apache Board to >>>>>> explain. In particular Jim, Doug and Shane. >>>>>> >>>>>> Only the board has the right to reveal the business that has been >>>>>> transacted on private lists. >>>>>> >>>>>> Rest assured that's Sonatype's commitment to Maven users and our pursuit >>>>>> of innovation with respect to Maven-related technologies has not >>>>>> stopped, and will not stop. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jun 16, 2011, at 9:42 AM, Jeff Jensen wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Is there a forthcoming explanation for a seemingly Maven PMC shakeup? >>>>>>> I find it odd that consistently excellent contributors such as Lukas, >>>>>>> Brian, et al are suddenly not on the Maven PMC. This is concerning as >>>>>>> these are people who have drastically improved and moved Maven >>>>>>> forward. It's very concerning that a heavy committer such as Benjamin >>>>>>> is no longer committing as he has done very useful, fantastic work. >>>>>>> These events are very concerning for the forward progress of Maven. >>>>>>> The strong temptations for competitive products, a la Gradle, do not >>>>>>> allow Maven progress to stop; particularly the best progress to date >>>>>>> of the past year. These events are detrimental. For us uninformed, >>>>>>> what happened, why is it good, what is the plan forward behind this? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org >>>>>>> <mailto:dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org> >>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org >>>>>>> <mailto:dev-h...@maven.apache.org> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Jason >>>>>> >>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> Jason van Zyl >>>>>> Founder, Apache Maven >>>>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>> We all have problems. How we deal with them is a measure of our worth. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- Unknown >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Jason >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------- >>>> Jason van Zyl >>>> Founder, Apache Maven >>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl >>>> --------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase it, the more it will >>>> elude you, but if you turn your attention to other things, it will come >>>> and sit softly on your shoulder ... >>>> >>>> -- Thoreau >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Jason >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> Jason van Zyl >> Founder, Apache Maven >> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl >> --------------------------------------------------------- >> >> A party which is not afraid of letting culture, >> business, and welfare go to ruin completely can >> be omnipotent for a while. >> >> -- Jakob Burckhardt >> >> >> > Thanks, Jason ---------------------------------------------------------- Jason van Zyl Founder, Apache Maven http://twitter.com/jvanzyl --------------------------------------------------------- We all have problems. How we deal with them is a measure of our worth. -- Unknown
