On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 1:08 PM, Jason van Zyl <[email protected]> wrote: > > On Dec 1, 2012, at 1:42 AM, Arnaud Héritier <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Ok. Yes that's sure it has to be discussed. That's why I reopened the >> subject. >> About the implementation : >> * as a user I have really no preference, I just want the feature >> * as a developer I played with both and for me these are just loggers >> . We may organize a fight between Ceki and Ralph but it won't help I >> think. I agree that log4j2 is in beta which is annoying (? Or not. We >> are talking about a logging lib that is doing some println - but with >> colors ) > > It's not a fight Arnaud, I want the discussion to be about objective > evaluation. > >> * as PMC and ASF member I suppose I should say that our projects are >> the best and we should privilege our own stuffs for the safety of our >> ecosystem. >> > > That, Arnaud, is nepotism. If the single strongest selection criterion here > is nepotism then I believe there is no hope for any ecosystem. If nepotism > above maturity, precedent, and use in the field become subordinate to > nepotism and our view of good is bounded by only what's done at Apache then I > believe we are truly in decline. I believe the ecosystem goes far beyond just > what exists at Apache.
I wouldn't say, 'nepotism,' but I agree with the bottom line of Jason's argument. The ASF is like Harvard College: "Every tub on its own bottom." We pay attention to licensing issues, but we don't go far out of our way to use the output of another ASF project rather than something that happens to come from somewhere else. Jason, Arnaud is not, as far as I know, quoting any policy prescription of the ASF. The ASF is not trying to be an 'ecosystem', especially a closed ecosystem. It is trying to provide a home for projects that follow its principles. My contribution to the hot air fund here is this: I think that the idea of 'competition' in open source is often misguided. There's generally plenty of room for many different variations on many different themes. Many build tools, many logging frameworks, many foundations. I don't think that a decision by Maven to use the new log4j will give them any meaningful boost towards success in Apache terms (being a vibrant community), nor will deciding to look elsewhere give them a significant ding. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
