On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 8:43 PM, Wade Chandler <wadechand...@apache.org> wrote:
> Humans also like to use modern paradigms. Slack is one of those. We have > Slack and IRC, and should be accessible in my opinion. Yes > I also have an appreciation for bringing things to the list to run concepts > by others, or make decisions. However, I hope we can all see the value in > mediums, and not have a dialogue which imparts a notion those things are > bad or should not be done. My own yardstick is something like this; * What do I know now, from being part of that discussion, that I would otherwise not know? > I believe the point and take away from this discussion is we should be > aware of the difference in human dynamics, interaction, and accessibility, > and the time to bring something to the wider Apache community, and be > responsible. The more valuable one find the alternate channel, the more worrisome it should be to longevity of community. Example; We use Slack/IRC to speed up communications. We think that will make the project move faster. And for those "in the know" and highly engaged in the project (high value community members), that is undeniably true. But, it will also include discussion, so rapid that a bystander can't follow, can't learn and probably can't ask questions even if the bystander is reasonably in the project. That leads in the long-run to no new high value community members joining the ranks, which means both that there is a stagnation at the bleeding-edge but also when someone like you , Wade, for whatever reason, leaves the project, it is a massive hit, since the 'pool of growth' is very dry. What the ASF as a whole have found out over 2 decades is that "growing members in the community" is a more viable long-term strategy than "working on codebase". If I can educate 4-5 new people, it is likely that one or more can fill my shoes if I leave. So, personally, I think that the best use of Slack/IRC/phone/Skype are in the following areas; * Discussion of bugs, replication, maybe using each others environments and so on. * Conflict resolution; if there is a strong disagreement over something, then face-to-face or video conferencing can often more easily resolve/arbitrate the situation. * Social; We are happier if we know each other better. Shouting out what we find funny, weird or irritating can lead to a stronger social environment. And I wouldn't use such channels for feature discussion or even announcing what I will work on next. I.e. "Can it be forgotten tomorrow, and we are just as wise?" Finally, we "old-timers" are not trying to force a way of working on the project. End of the day, if you don't take our advice, the project will die. And ASF as a whole will carry on, no big deal. And this mail is not bearing judgment on whether any of this has been done incorrectly, I simply don't know. It is just a general advice, food for thought, because I hope that Netbeans will become a flagship project at ASF. Cheers -- Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer http://polygene.apache.org - New Energy for Java
