I don't want to misquote Bruno, but I believe what he was saying was "if we create dependencies" between themes, it does not allow modular selection, distribution, and installation. Not that those dependencies already exist, because they don't.
I am not saying that I want to "get paid" for all of the themes I create, I'm simply suggesting it would be better in the long run if we leave modularized theming options open, monetized or otherwise, and let the user pick and choose what they want to install. Installing themes does not require a paid consultant to install. A new theme can be installed on-the-fly using the xml data import feature in webtools in a few minutes, with very little knowledge or instruction. You do bring up an interesting idea though... Say for instance we have just 2 themes in the OOTB installation with a link under the selection list that said "get more themes". Clicking that would bring up a list of themes in an external themes repo. We could then have a script that allows the user to grab the external themes XML seed data and download the themes assets to their installed instance. Might be a good idea for a future enhancement. Ryan L. Foster 801.671.0769 cont...@ryanlfoster.com On Jan 7, 2011, at 11:17 AM, BJ Freeman wrote: > Bruno says: > "Dependencies between themes do not allow modular selection, distribution and > installation." > You say they are modular. > > David has commented that he started this project with Idea that Trained > consultants in ofbiz would be paid to install modify, and customize ofbiz. > That model in my opinion does not work, as David has since said, with open > source. Especially being in ASF. > I have some modules that once the design time has be amortized I will release > to open source. Till then they cost. > > However my main thrust with ofbiz is first make it widely accepted so by > sheer numbers, there will those that want to hire consultants. So my focus is > a good online embedded Doc and help, along with a flexible and powerful setup > that will lead a end user through a complete setup. > Part of that setup is a java based component that will go get ofbiz and > download it then ask if they want demo or Production setup. I can see in > that phase of the setup making the end user aware of themes in galleries they > can then have installed. > > To that end I believe the current themes should be left in place and future > themes that people want to "get paid for" be put on their own website where > they can amortize their efforts. > > > > ========================= > > BJ Freeman > Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation > <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> > Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/> > Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist > > Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man > > > Ryan Foster sent the following on 1/7/2011 8:52 AM: >> I understand BJ concerns, but again, I'm with Bruno on this. Themes are >> modular and preferential by nature. Not every user will want or have a need >> for every theme. For instance, if I develop a women's boutique front-end >> theme, it may be of great interest to an owner of a women's boutique but the >> owner of an auto parts store could probably care less. Why not leave 2-3 >> "official release" themes in the trunk that are up to date and maintained >> consistently by the community and move everything else to an external >> directory. Then, let the user/developer pick and choose what themes to >> install. >> >> In the end, we all decide whether we want to contribute the code we develop >> back to the code base or not. For existing themes, my vote is to keep the >> active themes in the trunk and move the deprecated/ unsupported / >> "un-evolved" themes out to the theme gallery. This means >> BizznessTime?(which unfortunately seems to be rapidly losing community >> backing), Bluelight, and DroppingCrumbs. >> >> For future themes that I develop, the choice is easy for me. I will simply >> not grant the theme ASF license to be included in the trunk. I will release >> the theme to the public and post the theme to the theme gallery or >> distribute through some other method. If we decide to create a new theme >> from Flat Grey, I am calling the new theme Dorian Gray >> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorian_Gray). The new theme will continue to >> look young, fresh and modern, while it's reflection, Flat Grey, will >> continue to look older and more dated with each passing year... ;) >> >> Ryan L. Foster >> 801.671.0769 >> cont...@ryanlfoster.com >> >> On Jan 7, 2011, at 5:06 AM, Bruno Busco wrote: >> >>> Dependencies between themes do not allow modular selection, distribution and >>> installation. >>> Please give a look to these web sites: >>> >>> http://www.templatemonster.com/magento-themes.php >>> http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/ >>> http://drupal.org/project/Themes >>> >>> they are all examples of how to maintain themes database. >>> >>> In a production installation one can choose between: >>> - using one of the OOTB themes as it is >>> - use one of the themes from the theme gallery as it is >>> - start from one of the OOTB or gallery themes to build a new customized one >>> >>> Moving a theme from OOTB to the theme gallery should not be an issue. It >>> simply slightly changes the way how a production server is updated. >>> >>> -Bruno >>> >>> 2011/1/7 Jacques Le Roux<jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> >>> >>>> From: "BJ Freeman"<bjf...@free-man.net> >>>> >>>>> more the second. >>>>> >>>>> however I am reacting more to a pattern change. >>>>> for instance ecommerce was downgraded from a main app to a specialpurpose. >>>>> I was not removed. the architecture lets it be moved with out any code >>>>> changes to custom components already developed against it. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Yes, I completly understand your point... And I guess you are not alone in >>>> this situation... >>>> >>>> >>>> related to themes, and multitenacy, not every user is going to want the >>>>> same theme so the themes folder will be filled with `100's eventually. >>>>> >>>>> the script I started, >>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-3490 >>>>> is getting fancier. >>>>> I can see templates for functionality of themes instead of the themes >>>>> themselves. >>>>> the seup app reads the data templateThemeData.xml and modifies it on the >>>>> fly to the way the customer wants it. >>>>> This way we don't have a lot of inactive themes and all the possibilities >>>>> are in the template data. >>>>> this is a flexible change once the Setup structure is in place. >>>>> see >>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-635 >>>>> comment - 05/May/09 02:14 PM >>>>> >>>> >>>> As I planned initially, to be discussed... >>>> >>>> Jacques >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> ========================= >>>>> BJ Freeman >>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation< >>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> >>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/> >>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist >>>>> >>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man >>>>> Jacques Le Roux sent the following on 1/6/2011 11:15 PM: >>>>> >>>>> OK, that was the reason I had some concerns. Let's discuss it >>>>>> seriously... >>>>>> >>>>>> I think there are 2 ways to create a new themes from an existing one (a >>>>>> brand new one is not a problem). >>>>>> >>>>>> Duplicate an OOTB existing one and peek an poke there (resourceValues in >>>>>> ThemeNameThemeData.xml are all refering to locations in this theme) >>>>>> pros: independent from changes in the original theme (no pb if the theme >>>>>> dissapears, is changed for any reasons, etc.) >>>>>> cons: independent from changes in the original theme (you can't benefit >>>>>> from bug fixes, improvements, enhancements, etc.) >>>>>> >>>>>> Create a new theme by keeping references to an OOTB existing (some >>>>>> resourceValues in ThemeNameThemeData.xml are still refering to locations >>>>>> in this original theme) >>>>>> As (almost) ever there are 2 faces to the coin, the pros and cons are >>>>>> reversed from above. >>>>>> >>>>>> Which one are you using BJ? I guess the second. Else you would not have >>>>>> any concerns >>>>>> >>>>>> Jacques >>>>>> >>>>>> From: "BJ Freeman"<bjf...@free-man.net> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Adrian i am sure as a business man you understand if it ain't broke >>>>>>> don't fix it. >>>>>>> Now if you talking about new themes I can agree, but no one has >>>>>>> proposed any or give an price. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ========================= >>>>>>> BJ Freeman >>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation >>>>>>> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> >>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/> >>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Adrian Crum sent the following on 1/6/2011 3:23 PM: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That can go both ways. If your deployments depends upon the visual >>>>>>>> themes being in the trunk, then perhaps you should fund their upkeep. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -Adrian >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 2:58 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> so you will be glad to fund the effort to do that. >>>>>>>>> Time is money. and anything the effects the ROI needs to be >>>>>>>>> considered, >>>>>>>>> if the software is to be widely accepted. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ========================= >>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman >>>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation >>>>>>>>> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> >>>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/> >>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:51 PM: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I completely agree with you BJ. Considerations definitely have to be >>>>>>>>>> made when things are removed, especially if they are tied to the >>>>>>>>>> framework. What is being discussed is whether to remove themes, which >>>>>>>>>> can be hot-deployed from being maintained in the trunk. For future >>>>>>>>>> releases, all you would need to do is manually add your themes, >>>>>>>>>> custom >>>>>>>>>> or otherwise, to your production instance. If they are no longer tied >>>>>>>>>> in svn to the trunk, they would not be effected by any updates or >>>>>>>>>> releases. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster >>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769 >>>>>>>>>> cont...@ryanlfoster.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 3:40 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> so there will not be any more releases based on the trunk? >>>>>>>>>>> I was speaking in the future when 11.04 or 12.04 happen. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> it is the disregard of those that actually use this software instead >>>>>>>>>>> of just enjoy developing it. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I am a developer second and a business man first. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> basically you can add all you want but when you want to remove you >>>>>>>>>>> must consider those that have counted on what was provided. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ========================= >>>>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman >>>>>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier >>>>>>>>>>> Automation< >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/> >>>>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:33 PM: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The theme will still be present in the 10.04 releases. >>>>>>>>>>>> No production servers should rely on trunk. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<bjf...@free-man.net> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I have one that uses the flat grey as default >>>>>>>>>>>>> so if I do an update from the svn the flat grey will and my >>>>>>>>>>>>> customization >>>>>>>>>>>>> disappear. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> my sas uses all those in the themes, with my modification. >>>>>>>>>>>>> they will be removed. when the svn update is run. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> those are just a few examples. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================= >>>>>>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman >>>>>>>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation< >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 2:00 PM: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I am sorry, BJ, I do not see your point. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> What could be the issue? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> We will have less themes to maintain in the trunk (just Flat >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tomahawk, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Default and Multiflex). >>>>>>>>>>>>>> We will have more people that will be able to maintain additional >>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Themes Gallery. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Production servers will have each one its selected theme (one of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the OOTB, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> one of the Themes Gallery or a customized version of them). >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 BJ Freeman<bjf...@free-man.net> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> how about those that are using ofbiz for SAS and will have many >>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their clients. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bruno Busco sent the following on 1/6/2011 12:51 PM: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, having more than one theme in the trunk was originally >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accepted in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> order to use and show the visual theme selection feature OOTB. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and Tomahawk are one the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evolution >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Each time we decided to create a new theme instead of replacing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existing just to avoid problems to users. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My proposal is to remove Bluelight, Dropping Crumbs and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the trunk and put them in a separate themes repository as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suggested by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remove the actual version of the Flat Grey from the trunk and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> put it in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes repository. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Improve the Flat Grey theme in the trunk with the work you guys >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doing. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this way we will have in the trunk two themes for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> backend >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Actual >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FlatGrey and Tomahawk) and two themes for the ecommerce >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Default >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Multiflex). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the themes repository there will be Bluelight, Dropping >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Crumbs, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime and the actual FlatGrey. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It could be a nice start for the theme repository (and gallery) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> start. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Bruno >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2011/1/6 Jacques Le Roux<jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inline... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cont...@ryanlfoster.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I understand your concerns about support, and your thoughts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes has some valid points. However, in regards to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BizznessTime theme, I never really intended for that to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "my" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyway. I always viewed it as a community theme as that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was it's original intent and it was truly a collaborative >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effort to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> build it between myself, my colleagues at HotWax, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BrainFood, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and other members of the the OFBiz community. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, sorry for that Ryan. It's only because I know you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "fathers" (the most important I guess) and helped much >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the beginning, my apologies. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At any rate, my time issues and focus have shifted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> significantly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the last few months as I have left HotWax and gone into >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> independent consulting and freelance development. I plan on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much more active role in the community in the months and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years ahead. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's really a good, very good news! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as theme contributions go, I wonder if maybe it would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea to have a theme repo outside of the trunk that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> individuals could commit to? The problem with theme >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintenance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new theme has been added to the trunk is that not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone has commit privileges to the trunk. This makes the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> process >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintenance a lot more time consuming for individual >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contributors as they have to rely on patches, updates, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collaboration, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc, rather than just monitoring and maintaining their own >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This could certainly be discussed as themes are no blocking >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> parts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as *at least one works "perfectly"* (another way is to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> become committer), opinions? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the way that Magento and Wordpress do it are good >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> examples. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wordpress, there is one "official" theme that is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> included with the install, but there are literally thousands >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of themes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that are not maintained by Wordpress that they list on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there site http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/, and now with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 3.0 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> release you can even search for new themes and install them >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> automatically from inside your Wordpress install. Doing it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this way >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fosters wider community support by delegating maintenance of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these themes to individual contributors rather than forcing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> handful of committers and also allows developers to monetize >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there contributions by offering "premium" themes and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plugins. In >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there are many individuals and companies in the Wordpress >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community that make their living solely by selling themes and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plugins. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This furthers solidifies the base of support for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project by offering a mid-tier option for someone who wants >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than OOTB but can't necessarily afford custom >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> development. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This makes good sense indeed. The only difference, I guess, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unfortunately the width of the audience. This does not mean >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not try... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cont...@ryanlfoster.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2011, at 8:17 AM, Adrian Crum wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From my perspective, I don't see much chance in the Flat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visual >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme being abandoned. Enough people use it that it will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get the attention it needs. If Ryan isn't available to fix >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can fix it. If I'm not available, someone else could >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix it, etc. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2011 6:02 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your screen copies at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks really great! Looking forward for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> implementation... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My concerns are that maybe you will not have enough time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> later to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up with possible bugs or other issues. Look for instance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to Bizzness Time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2398 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even if it looks a bit old, we have a theme which works >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great. Why >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking any risks with it? Also I can't see any issues >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. The more we have the better, I like to have the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (rare) people prefer to use old things, see games >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machines or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> synthesizers for instance (I still love the DX-7 sound >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_DX7 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/dx7.php) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are any evolved version of Flat Grey yet. So this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1st >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> modern one still using the RTL mechanism introduced by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice the name! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Foster wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IMO I see no reason to have a "Flat Grey Evolution" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right, the Flat Grey theme hasn't had a visual update in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years and it looks very dated. It needs some love. Let's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not add >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another improved version, let's just improve the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version we >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have now. I think that is more efficient and more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beneficial in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long run. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as the tabs go, we can still keep a horizontal, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tab-like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> navigation without actually having the tabs look like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tabs. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because, the absolutely do look terrible displayed in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> two >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rows. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian, I would be happy to collaborate with you on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think I have some ideas that could help. Email me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> directly if you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to hash out some ideas outside of this mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Consequently, as far as new admin themes go, I guess I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can use >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an opportunity as well to drop a teaser about a new >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been working on already for some time now that I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honestly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hope >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will become the go-to theme for scalability and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization, and that will eventually replace the Flat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> altogether. The new theme scales down very well to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 800x600 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and has minimal styling for maximum flexibility and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customization. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stay tuned for more details in the next few days... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan L. Foster >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 801.671.0769 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cont...@ryanlfoster.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 3, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Adrian Crum wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chiclet refers to a brand of chewing gum. The tabs look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pieces >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of Chiclets chewing gum. They look terrible when they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed in two rows. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 1/3/11, Jacques Le Roux< >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By "chiclet" main navigation style, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you mean the tabs? Then I think we should keep Flat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grey as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is (because there are advantages >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to have tabs) and create a Flat Grey evolution... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<adrian.c...@yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking we could use colors from the Apache >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> logo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the BizznessTime theme. I would also like to get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rid of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the "chiclet" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main navigation style, and maybe have that menu in a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collapsible left column. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 1/2/11, Sascha Rodekamp >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <sascha.rodekamp.lynx...@googlemail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Sascha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rodekamp<sascha.rodekamp.lynx...@googlemail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Discussion: Flat Grey Visual Theme >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: dev@ofbiz.apache.org, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Jacques Le Roux"<jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 2:27 AM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really would appreciate to keep the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flat Gray. But you're right it needs a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few visual improvements. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me think about this, maybe somethink comes to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my mind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ..... :-) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2010/12/29 Jacques Le >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roux<jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IIRW, it's the only really RTL capable. So a big YES >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to keep >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no ideas though :/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jacques >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Adrian Crum"<adrian.c...@yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Flat Grey visual theme is getting old. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The current version of the theme is based on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and feel of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz when I first joined the community - back in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2004. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Around >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Spring of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2007 I added some gradient gifs to make the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original style >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After that, the visual theme was converted to a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> floating >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flexible layout >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (to fit any size screen), it was made >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sight-impaired accessible (font size >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can be changed), and it added support for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bi-directional >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> layout >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (for rtl >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> languages). Those design decisions were made by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OFBiz >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community and, in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion, continue to make the Flat Grey theme >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fallback >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme when all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else fails. It just works. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite its advantages, it looks dated. I would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> update >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it to make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it more modern, but maintain its advantages over >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themes. I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking it only needs css and gif file updates. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> templates and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> javascripts would be maintained. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone is interested, they are welcome to help >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate any suggestions or comments. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know what you think. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adrian >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sascha Rodekamp >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lynx-Consulting GmbH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Johanniskirchplatz 6 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D-33615 Bielefeld >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lynx.de >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >> >> >
