Ruth, It's not as if I'm an outsider taking pot-shots at something from a distance. I also think OFBiz is great, but after working with it for a decade I'm confident I can do better, and I can confidently say the same about many in the OFBiz community. We can do better, and what's more: we want to.
Maybe you're not familiar with the pattern of my comments, it is the pattern of retrospection and introspection and open communication about a creation and a long-term effort. It's what happens when someone has so thoroughly explored and experienced and tried to improve something that clear patterns of success and failure have emerged. Consider my efforts on Moqui and related projects to be my attempt at atonement for the many sins laid at my feet over my years with OFBiz that now fetter my soul and make further progress difficult. If you've never experienced anything of the sort, I challenge you to stretch yourself and work to create something great. Take on something that is so beyond you that you can't see the other side, and keep pushing for it after having to give up and start over a time or two. Then you'll understand. -David On May 2, 2011, at 7:26 PM, Ruth Hoffman wrote: > > On 5/2/11 9:23 PM, Scott Gray wrote: >> On 3/05/2011, at 12:51 PM, Ruth Hoffman wrote: >> >>> List: >>> Why is it that David is allowed to advertise continuously about his latest >>> pet project - that has nothing to do with OFBiz - on this mailing list and >>> others, such as myself can't even mention a resource dedicated entirely to >>> OFBiz, that many have found useful, (MyOFBiz.com http://www.myofbiz.com) >>> without risk of severe rebuke? >> The only time I think I've rebuked you is when you did nothing to engage the >> conversation and instead just wrote something along the lines of "you'll >> find the answer to that question at my website!". I don't think anyone has >> an issue with the promotion of relevant websites, companies, projects, etc. >> but I don't personally think it should ever be the primary purpose of >> sending a message to these lists. Moqui isn't just a random pet project >> anyway, it is a potential replacement for the OFBiz framework created by one >> of the founders of OFBiz, if that's not worthy of discussion I don't know >> what would be. >> > IMO, it is one thing to talk about replacing the framework. It is quite > another to continually harp on what is wrong with OFBiz. >>> Of course that was a rhetorical question. I know the answer. But I will say >>> this: As an outsider, what I see going on here is seriously wrong...The >>> constant innuendo that there is something amiss with OFBiz undermines the >>> public's faith in the quality and value proposition of this project. >> That seems pretty hypocritical considering you've spent a fair amount of >> time in the past criticizing the most active members of the community and >> spreading FUD about the way this project is managed. But at the end of the >> day there is something wrong and ignoring that will achieve nothing, this is >> the dev list and is the most appropriate place to discuss these development >> related issues. > Really? What, in your esteemed opinion is wrong? With OFBiz that is. And not > me. (I already know that latter.) >>> Despite all the differences of all the OFBiz community members, OFBiz still >>> remains the best open source - possibly any source - ERP around. Lets not >>> forget that. >>> >>> Although I have no authority to request this I'm asking that David please >>> stop using this list as his "dumping" ground. David, if you do not have >>> positive OFBiz commentary, please don't post. >> Nobody has any authority here other than the respect one gains through what >> the ASF calls a "meritorcracy" (government by merit), and there really can't >> be any doubt that David has well and truly earned the right to say whatever >> he damn well pleases (in my opinion). David's spent more time interacting >> with this community than anyone else and if he's learnt something from that >> then I for one want to hear it. >> > Well, if your aim is to destroy OFBiz in favor of Moqui or any other "the > grass is always greener" solution, then by all means bash away and encourage > David and everyone to join the fray. >>> BTW, anyone wanting to help me make MyOFBiz.com a better resource for the >>> OFBiz community, please feel free to contact me at ruth.hoff...@myofbiz.com >>> >>> Regards, >>> Ruth >>> >>> On 5/2/11 7:46 PM, David E Jones wrote: >>>> In fact, we have a garden now... it's just looking for gardeners. >>>> >>>> Moqui Framework 1.0 is feature-complete and in beta. The Mantle data model >>>> (UDM) is in an initially complete state (except for seed data which I'm >>>> still working on), and is at a point where feedback is the most important >>>> next step (with various improvements to it already planned as well). >>>> >>>> In any case, framework add-ons and applications are welcome, and I've even >>>> solicited creation of such things in order to help test the framework and >>>> give people opportunities to experience the framework and give feedback. >>>> >>>> If you create something great, let me know and I'll list it here: >>>> >>>> http://www.moqui.org/crust.html >>>> >>>> Maybe even Apache OFBiz will be there at some point. >>>> >>>> -David >>>> >>>> >>>> On May 2, 2011, at 9:34 AM, Shi Jinghai wrote: >>>> >>>>> That's great, David. Glad to know we'll have a garden soon. >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, 2011-04-29 at 10:00 -0700, David E Jones wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> My goal is to split the community to various sub-communities involved in >>>>>> different projects which make up an ecosystem of projects based on the >>>>>> same framework and data model, as opposed to a single project for >>>>>> everything. This will reduce conflict and encourage people to try >>>>>> different ideas with end-users in the position to choose between them >>>>>> based on what works best for them. >>>>>> >>>>>> A distributed community, as opposed to a centralized community, would >>>>>> allow many more people to get involved with much less conflict than our >>>>>> current rather small community. The point is not to exclude people or >>>>>> get rid of a community, the point is to enable more people to get >>>>>> involved and move it more towards a "free market" structure as opposed >>>>>> to the current "central planning" type of structure that OFBiz operates >>>>>> under. >>>>>> >>>>>> -David >>>>>>
