Well said David. I think that the investment you made to OFBiz pre-Moqui was astounding, but what you've created in Moqui has the chance to save the project and keep it going for the _next_ 10 years. Thank you for being proactive enough and caring enough to get out in front of the community even when at times it's not able to see that a change is needed.
My two cents. Cheers, Ruppert On May 2, 2011, at 10:22 PM, David E Jones wrote: > > Ruth, > > It's not as if I'm an outsider taking pot-shots at something from a distance. > I also think OFBiz is great, but after working with it for a decade I'm > confident I can do better, and I can confidently say the same about many in > the OFBiz community. We can do better, and what's more: we want to. > > Maybe you're not familiar with the pattern of my comments, it is the pattern > of retrospection and introspection and open communication about a creation > and a long-term effort. It's what happens when someone has so thoroughly > explored and experienced and tried to improve something that clear patterns > of success and failure have emerged. > > Consider my efforts on Moqui and related projects to be my attempt at > atonement for the many sins laid at my feet over my years with OFBiz that now > fetter my soul and make further progress difficult. > > If you've never experienced anything of the sort, I challenge you to stretch > yourself and work to create something great. Take on something that is so > beyond you that you can't see the other side, and keep pushing for it after > having to give up and start over a time or two. Then you'll understand. > > -David > > > On May 2, 2011, at 7:26 PM, Ruth Hoffman wrote: > >> >> On 5/2/11 9:23 PM, Scott Gray wrote: >>> On 3/05/2011, at 12:51 PM, Ruth Hoffman wrote: >>> >>>> List: >>>> Why is it that David is allowed to advertise continuously about his latest >>>> pet project - that has nothing to do with OFBiz - on this mailing list and >>>> others, such as myself can't even mention a resource dedicated entirely to >>>> OFBiz, that many have found useful, (MyOFBiz.com http://www.myofbiz.com) >>>> without risk of severe rebuke? >>> The only time I think I've rebuked you is when you did nothing to engage >>> the conversation and instead just wrote something along the lines of >>> "you'll find the answer to that question at my website!". I don't think >>> anyone has an issue with the promotion of relevant websites, companies, >>> projects, etc. but I don't personally think it should ever be the primary >>> purpose of sending a message to these lists. Moqui isn't just a random pet >>> project anyway, it is a potential replacement for the OFBiz framework >>> created by one of the founders of OFBiz, if that's not worthy of discussion >>> I don't know what would be. >>> >> IMO, it is one thing to talk about replacing the framework. It is quite >> another to continually harp on what is wrong with OFBiz. >>>> Of course that was a rhetorical question. I know the answer. But I will >>>> say this: As an outsider, what I see going on here is seriously >>>> wrong...The constant innuendo that there is something amiss with OFBiz >>>> undermines the public's faith in the quality and value proposition of this >>>> project. >>> That seems pretty hypocritical considering you've spent a fair amount of >>> time in the past criticizing the most active members of the community and >>> spreading FUD about the way this project is managed. But at the end of the >>> day there is something wrong and ignoring that will achieve nothing, this >>> is the dev list and is the most appropriate place to discuss these >>> development related issues. >> Really? What, in your esteemed opinion is wrong? With OFBiz that is. And not >> me. (I already know that latter.) >>>> Despite all the differences of all the OFBiz community members, OFBiz >>>> still remains the best open source - possibly any source - ERP around. >>>> Lets not forget that. >>>> >>>> Although I have no authority to request this I'm asking that David please >>>> stop using this list as his "dumping" ground. David, if you do not have >>>> positive OFBiz commentary, please don't post. >>> Nobody has any authority here other than the respect one gains through what >>> the ASF calls a "meritorcracy" (government by merit), and there really >>> can't be any doubt that David has well and truly earned the right to say >>> whatever he damn well pleases (in my opinion). David's spent more time >>> interacting with this community than anyone else and if he's learnt >>> something from that then I for one want to hear it. >>> >> Well, if your aim is to destroy OFBiz in favor of Moqui or any other "the >> grass is always greener" solution, then by all means bash away and encourage >> David and everyone to join the fray. >>>> BTW, anyone wanting to help me make MyOFBiz.com a better resource for the >>>> OFBiz community, please feel free to contact me at ruth.hoff...@myofbiz.com >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Ruth >>>> >>>> On 5/2/11 7:46 PM, David E Jones wrote: >>>>> In fact, we have a garden now... it's just looking for gardeners. >>>>> >>>>> Moqui Framework 1.0 is feature-complete and in beta. The Mantle data >>>>> model (UDM) is in an initially complete state (except for seed data which >>>>> I'm still working on), and is at a point where feedback is the most >>>>> important next step (with various improvements to it already planned as >>>>> well). >>>>> >>>>> In any case, framework add-ons and applications are welcome, and I've >>>>> even solicited creation of such things in order to help test the >>>>> framework and give people opportunities to experience the framework and >>>>> give feedback. >>>>> >>>>> If you create something great, let me know and I'll list it here: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.moqui.org/crust.html >>>>> >>>>> Maybe even Apache OFBiz will be there at some point. >>>>> >>>>> -David >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On May 2, 2011, at 9:34 AM, Shi Jinghai wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> That's great, David. Glad to know we'll have a garden soon. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, 2011-04-29 at 10:00 -0700, David E Jones wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> My goal is to split the community to various sub-communities involved >>>>>>> in different projects which make up an ecosystem of projects based on >>>>>>> the same framework and data model, as opposed to a single project for >>>>>>> everything. This will reduce conflict and encourage people to try >>>>>>> different ideas with end-users in the position to choose between them >>>>>>> based on what works best for them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A distributed community, as opposed to a centralized community, would >>>>>>> allow many more people to get involved with much less conflict than our >>>>>>> current rather small community. The point is not to exclude people or >>>>>>> get rid of a community, the point is to enable more people to get >>>>>>> involved and move it more towards a "free market" structure as opposed >>>>>>> to the current "central planning" type of structure that OFBiz operates >>>>>>> under. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -David >>>>>>> >
