From: "Anil Patel" <anil.pa...@hotwaxmedia.com>
Jacques,
I see that you mentioned few names and mine was in there as well, I am not
feeling any bad or such. But wanted to say something.
Its not that I don't have time to contribute to Ofbiz. There is different problem, There has been way too many difficult
interaction on email lists, Also lots of those were cases where one person in the community was not ready to cooperate.
As a company we have lost many hours of work and put in bad spot before customers because of bad code commits in trunk. IMO Ofbiz
trunk gets way too many commits and not as much code review, testing, cooperative discussions.
I lost some time also, but fortunately not that much. I found that when I got a problem the community was responsive and I have
never been caught in a deadlock. Which component(s) was more a problem for you? I know you invested much in Prototype and maybe
Dojo, had the replacement by jQuery been a problem for you? Don't you miss it now?
Finally we decided to start using 10.04 branch for all our work. It turned out good in a way. Not many other then our company
seems to care much about it, in a sense it good. There is less code changes to keep eye on.
Anil, this is a bit untrue, though I'm not a company and I don't recommend R10.04 for my clients nor use it locally, you have
certainly noticed that I backport a lot of fixes in releases (not only R10.04 but also R9.04). I know you know this is extra work,
just for the sake of the community.
But now that we are using 10.04, any code improvement/enhancement we make for our clients does not easily get contributed to Ofbiz
because of additional effort required to forward port all that code and then discuss/argue with other committers.
Yes, that's why I still prefer trunk. Though I did not get much opportunities
to contribute back these last times.
Good thing though, Ofbiz 10.04 branch, did get lots of bug fixes contributions from my coworkers, and is now very stable code
base.
This is certainly good for your company, and I can understand that, but less for OFBiz growth. Chris Snow asked one year ago if
OFBIz was dead, I don't think so. I simply believe it's now mature and different strategies emerge. Maybe someday you will need to
turn to the trunk again and then the flow of novelties from your company will begin again...
Thanks for your comment
Jacques
Thanks and Regards
Anil Patel
On May 3, 2011, at 4:38 PM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
From: "David E Jones" <d...@me.com>
On May 3, 2011, at 11:05 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
From: "David E Jones" <d...@me.com>
On May 3, 2011, at 8:14 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
Is that harsh and rude? Yep. Do I care any more? Nope. Those who call it harsh or rude or unfair... they are the ones who
need
to
rise to the level of quality expected instead of asking me to compromise. I'm
done with that.
Yes maybe a more hierarchised organisation is better to reach some goals. This
needs to be verified... Goal is the important
word
here...
I'm not interested in an hierarchy, ie I don't want anyone "under" me that I'm
responsible for and have to boss around. Even
Moqui is an unpaid volunteer effort, just more tightly controlled and the
meritocracy bar is intentionally set higher. I don't
know that OFBiz would do better as an hierarchy, my opinion is that more "free
market" forces are needed and to me that means
multiple competing projects.
Actually, this was almost a provocation, but I did not get totally your point of view as you explain below. What I meant is
some
parts could me managed by some persons. We saw that sometimes a consensus is not reached. Unfortunately, collegial decisions
does
not work in all cases. That's a fact, a lesson we learned. So I sadly believe we (the community) definitively and ultimately
need
a justice of the peace. A person who makes the decision in last resort. Someone
Karl Fogel called a benevolent dictator
http://markmail.org/message/euy7qz47u3sjwjvm. That's what we missed those last times and Jacopo sort of complained about. On
the
other hand we know things are not as simple as that: there are other means
which influence the decisions: blackmail, etc. This
said, and to make things clear, it's about OFBiz community, not about what you
are proposing with Moqui which is more
decentralized and entrepreneurs oriented.
Yes, the questions with OFBiz is what will the future look like. If OFBiz moves
toward being based on Moqui, and fitting into an
ecosystem of projects instead of being an all-in-one project, what will be the
new scope of Apache OFBiz?
Should OFBiz be an ERP meant to be used as-is? If so, what size of business and sort of industry should it target?
Alternatively,
should it be a system that is meant to be customized and not used as-is (which was actually my original vision for OFBiz, though
I
know many have different visions and goals for the project)? Could OFBiz just
be a base ERP system meant to be extended in other
projects, but is usable OOTB as well?
This might be a good topic for a separate thread...
Yes, for another day... I think most people use OFBiz as a template for their
own system. It contains now almost all what it's
needed for a web application project to be based on: there are tons of good
(and not as good) examples...
Perhaps even for you Jacques a more distributed ecosystem of projects might
even be better. If you could work on anything you
wanted, what would it be? What is your greatest strength and area of experience and could a project based on that exist
(perhaps
working with others, if you want)?
I have to thing about it. I really enjoyed the work we did with Sascha, last year. For the moment I just enjoy doing nothing,
but
I mean really NOTHING :D
I hear you on this. One of my favorite movies is Office Space, partly because of the main character's Dream of Doing Nothing.
One
of his lines in response to being asked what he did over a weekend was something
like "I did nothing, and it was everything I
always thought it would be." Sometimes it's necessary to do nothing for a while, and have time to think and adjust priorities
and
recognize desires.
Yes, it's vital actually, the harder is to not culpabilise and turn back to
spend energy
On the other hand, it's a great feeling to work on something that excites and motivates you. This is where free markets can
really
allow for incredible productivity: when people are interested and excited and
motivated, and feel a sense of ownership and pride
in what they are working on, productivity shoots through the roof. I don't know
of any human motivation that can produce similar
results in productivity, and especially along with corresponding personal
happiness and fulfillment.
Motivation is the key, I totally agree with you!
Jacques
-David
