I see your point. Maybe you are right, probably there's no need to use an external framework. I proposed to use Bootstrap because that will make the task much easier. I'm not against the idea of creating a new styling and such on our own, but that will require much more effort imo. Also I don't feel capable of doing a good job designing it myself, as I said I am not a web designer, so in case we decide to do that, someone that knows better how to do a proper HTML5 design from scratch w/o a framework will be needed.
As for the fact that the them will be probably thrown away or no simply not used, my guess is that it applies for the current themes in all cases. I don't think they are used by anybody to be honest. So the possibility of ending up with a similar result exists but also could be that more people gets interested. From my POV it will definitely catch up more attention. On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 5:32 PM, Adrian Crum < [email protected]> wrote: > I understand what you are proposing. So, let me try this again... > > HTML cleanups are fine. Updating the markup to HTML 5 is fine. That sort > of overhaul has been done before and it is always welcome. > > What we are discussing here is introducing an outside styling framework > for the eCommerce application. I question the need for the framework > because most businesses don't use the eCommerce application out of the box. > In other words, we would be investing a lot of time and effort into > something that a lot of businesses will just throw away. > > As Christian pointed out, it would be nice to have a better looking > eCommerce demonstration, and I agree. But again, I think that can be done > with consistent and concise markup - coupled with some good styling. > > I'm not opposed to the external framework idea, I just question the need > for it. > > -Adrian > > > On 5/7/2013 4:21 PM, Jonatan Soto wrote: > >> Hi Adrian, >> >> Thanks a lot for your input. >> >> I agree with you that OFBiz is not an eCommerce platform and also that the >> current themes are there for demonstration but that doesn't change the >> fact >> that it needs a complete rework. So what I'm referring to is more about to >> adapt all of the ftls and screen definitions using one of the fancy HTML5 >> frameworks available rather a cleanup. >> >> >> >> On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 4:29 PM, Adrian Crum < >> adrian.crum@sandglass-**software.com <[email protected]>> >> wrote: >> >> I agree in principle with this reply. Very few shops use the OFBiz >>> eCommerce front-end - it wasn't intended to be used as-is, instead its >>> there for demonstration purposes. >>> >>> Each business will have a preference for styling their site, so choosing >>> one theme over all others seems presumptuous. >>> >>> As I mentioned in the Jira issue, HTML cleanups are always welcome. >>> Consistent and concise markup makes it easier to design themes - and from >>> my perspective that provides the most benefit to OFBiz developers. >>> >>> -Adrian >>> >>> >>> On 5/7/2013 2:49 PM, Richard Siddall wrote: >>> >>> Jonatan Soto wrote: >>>> >>>> Would be anyone interested in convert the existing frontend themes into >>>>> Bootstrap >>>>> http://twitter.github.io/****bootstrap/<http://twitter.github.io/**bootstrap/> >>>>> <http://twitter.**github.io/bootstrap/<http://twitter.github.io/bootstrap/> >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> ? >>>>> >>>>> The idea is to create a theme from scratch that will replace the >>>>> current >>>>> default and multiplex themes. >>>>> >>>>> [snip] >>>> >>>> While I think having more modern front-end themes would be great, let me >>>> play devil's advocate... >>>> >>>> Why Bootstrap? >>>> >>>> Why not Zurb Foundation (http://foundation.zurb.com/), HTML5 >>>> Boilerplate >>>> (http://html5boilerplate.com/) or some other starting point? Or as >>>> Scott Kellum argued on the Compass list (on January 8), use a >>>> combination >>>> of components such as Susy, Sassy-buttons, Color-Schemer, and >>>> Modular-Scale. >>>> >>>> Bootstrap is an easy way of getting a lot of functionality, but it's >>>> arguable overused. It's fast becoming to HTML5 frameworks what Times >>>> Roman >>>> is to web fonts. If you want your web shop to look like everyone else's >>>> web shop, it's a great choice. If you want to differentiate yourself in >>>> the market, use something else. >>>> >>>> Plus, many Bootstrap-based themes just throw the whole bloated framework >>>> at the browser, regardless of which pieces they use, slowing page loads >>>> and >>>> wasting mobile bandwidth allocations. But Bootstrap is built on LESS, >>>> so >>>> you can choose which chunks of CSS and JavaScript should be included in >>>> your site's copy of Bootstrap, as well as using variables and mixins to >>>> get >>>> more consistent CSS styling. >>>> >>>> LESS is based on JavaScript, which practically requires you to install >>>> Node.js to use it. Zurb Foundation is based on SASS, which is written >>>> in >>>> Ruby. It looks like SASS will run on JRuby on the JVM. >>>> >>>> To summarize: >>>> - Bootstrap is just one of several great HTML5 frameworks >>>> - You can get the same effects using straight CSS3 and JavaScript, or >>>> smaller projects for areas like responsive design, button styling, text >>>> spacing, etc. >>>> - Bootstrap is overused >>>> - Bootstrap is frequently ineptly used, penalizing the end user >>>> - A major reason to use Bootstrap is to use LESS and other languages >>>> that >>>> abstract CSS and JavaScript >>>> - Bootstrap may not be the best framework for a Java-based project >>>> >>>> I hope this helps. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Richard Siddall >>>> >>>> >>> >> > -- ----- Jonatan Soto
