Sounds great, thanks! On Mon, Apr 25, 2016, 11:35 AM Inge Olaisen <[email protected]> wrote:
> I can set the chat stuff up. From what I can see Slack won the vote. So I > will set it up. > You will get emails when that is done. > > best regards > Inge > > On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 5:21 PM, David Ash <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Yeah, that's a good enough path forward. Can you set up the chat stuff, > or > > would you prefer me to do that? > > > > I can help with the repo stuff too, although we need the website repo > > mirrored onto github before we work on that and it seems like it could be > > weeks before someone that has that ability will do it. But to get the > > source code for the main project, just fork the github repo: > > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-openaz > > > > Then clone your fork. Any changes you make will be made to your fork, > and > > you can then use github to make pull requests. > > > > > > It's not particularly functional until the admin portion is there, and my > > pull request that ported over the admin portion is still in github, > > unmerged. > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 1:02 AM, Inge Olaisen <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > Hi David, > > > > > > First and foremost I think we should start up the chat client, get that > > up. > > > Get the admin stuff up. Get the repo up so it is possible to > familiarize > > > oneself with the project and its current status. > > > Once that is done, it is possible to see where we are and it becomes > > easier > > > to see what is required. > > > > > > // > > > Inge > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 9:52 AM, David Ash <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > Okay, we never managed to get a vote through regarding time anyways. > So > > > > there's not going to be a meeting because advanced notice can't be > met > > at > > > > this point. And we can add two votes against having the meeting, > also, > > > and > > > > one of them being cast many days after the original email. And we > never > > > > heard from all the developers. And we never heard from the PMC on the > > > other > > > > thread. > > > > > > > > So we couldn't pull off an emergency meeting. We couldn't pull that > > off? > > > > Sam and Inge, you were both involved, and thanks. John was there. > > > Emmanuel > > > > was late, but he showed up. > > > > > > > > But we failed. Hopes of wasted emails. Really? There's not much work > > to > > > do > > > > to get this software into an initial release. But if we can't > > > successfully > > > > coordinate an emergency meeting over the course of 4 days we're > > probably > > > > doomed after all. > > > > > > > > Well, unless either one or more of us just start working without > > > > coordinating. Pocket development could work. Coordinating and voting > is > > > > just hopeless though. I mean we could just start making tasks and > > > assigning > > > > them out, we could call that coordinating. But I don't give people 4 > > days > > > > to say they can't do a task. That's not acceptable. No, I've spent > > > several > > > > hours on these emails. We haven't accomplished 5 minutes worth of > > > > anything... not even close to what we could do on a real time voice > > > call. I > > > > can't afford that time for that little result. > > > > > > > > Now if the PMC had stepped up and at least replied about making us > > > > committers, maybe that would be something. But it's all crickets > > there. > > > > > > > > How do we move forward? > > > > On Apr 23, 2016 8:37 PM, "Emmanuel Lecharny" <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > Sorry not to be able to reply responsively...(vacations) > > > > > > > > > > Comments inline... > > > > > > > > > > Le vendredi 22 avril 2016, David Ash <[email protected]> a > écrit > > : > > > > > > > > > > > Awesome! Thanks for your contribution Inge! > > > > > > > > > > > > It's unfortunate that we didn't hear from everyone, but we have > to > > > keep > > > > > > moving forward aggressively. It's time for voting! > > > > > > > > > > > > CANDIDATES > > > > > > Voice > > > > > > * Skype > > > > > > * Discord > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, no voice communication, no schefuled meetings. This will > > simply > > > > > won't work across timezones. Sunday is generally a sacred familly > > day: > > > ie > > > > > we are all deficated and hard worker developpers, who probably had > > cut > > > a > > > > > deal with spouse/husband : sunday is a ´no computer day' ! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Screen sharing > > > > > > * Skype > > > > > > * join.me > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same pb, but can be useful from tome to time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Team chat > > > > > > * HipChat > > > > > > * Discord > > > > > > * Skype > > > > > > * Slack > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same as voice channel : does not work well across tz. Such real > time > > > > > communication channel are somehow excluding people from the team in > > the > > > > > long run... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > MY VOTE > > > > > > 1. Voice - Skype > > > > > > 2. Screen sharing - Skype > > > > > > 3. Team chat - Slack > > > > > > > > > > > > Temporary regular meetings: Sunday > > > > > > Kickoff meeting: Sunday @ 4:00 PM UTC > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Typically, this is 6:30 pm in France. 12h30 in NY, 9:30 in SF, > > midnight > > > > in > > > > > New Delhi(not to mention Australia). We tried such meetings on > > another > > > > > project, with people from South Korea, Turkey, France and USA: a > > > failure. > > > > > > > > > > As ´retarded' as it sounds, mailing list simply works: > asynchronous, > > > > > archived, possible parallel threads: all what you need;-) > > > > > > > > > > Emmanuel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > VOTES SO FAR > > > > > > Sam > > > > > > 1. Voice - Skype > > > > > > 2. Screen sharing - join.me > > > > > > 3. Team chat - Slack > > > > > > > > > > > > Temporary regular meetings: Sunday > > > > > > Kickoff meeting: Sunday @ ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Inge > > > > > > 1. Voice - Skype > > > > > > 2. Screen sharing - Skype > > > > > > 3. Team chat - Slack > > > > > > > > > > > > Temporary regular meetings: ? > > > > > > Kickoff meeting: ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > VOTING > > > > > > > > > > > > Please cast or update your vote for solutions no later than > > Saturday, > > > > > April > > > > > > 23rd @ 6AM UTC. > > > > > > Please cast or update your vote for kickoff day and time no later > > > than > > > > > > Saturday, April 23rd @ 12AM UTC. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for your involvement! > > > > > > > > > > > > David Ash > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 21, 2016 3:45 PM, "Inge Olaisen" <[email protected] > > > > > > <javascript:;>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Methodology looks fine, 2 week sprints seems reasonable to me. > > The > > > > > > details > > > > > > > of what a loose scrum entails I guess we can take when we have > > the > > > > > > kickoff > > > > > > > meeting, because I'm more used to a firm Agile Scrum setup. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Communication option that works best for me, at least for voice > > > > > > > communication would be Skype/Discord since I'm not located in > the > > > US. > > > > > > > Although I would favor Skype because of the screen sharing > option > > > > > > > available. > > > > > > > Chat options I would consider IRC old fashioned and lacking in > so > > > > many > > > > > > > regards, so HipChat, Discord, Skype and Slack works better for > > me. > > > I > > > > do > > > > > > > favor Slack as the better option, but in all honestly as long > as > > > you > > > > > can > > > > > > > chat it is good. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > // Inge > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 7:07 PM, David Ash < > [email protected] > > > > > > <javascript:;>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, John, were you nominating IRC or hipchat over slack > when > > > you > > > > > > listed > > > > > > > > those team chat options? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 11:04 AM, David Ash < > > > [email protected] > > > > > > <javascript:;>> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what Sam is trying to say here is he doesn't > > appreciate > > > > > > > > > bureaucracy getting in the way of progress. I also see red > > > tape > > > > > as a > > > > > > > > major > > > > > > > > > threat to getting some momentum rolling. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That having been said, I think we've arrived at a > compromise > > > that > > > > > > > allows > > > > > > > > > us to move quickly without diverging greatly from the > > > intentions > > > > of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > ASF. I appreciate the time and positions of everyone here, > > and > > > > > think > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > diversity is what helps us move forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, let's move forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > John - with your developer hat on, do you have any thoughts > > on > > > > > these > > > > > > > > > proposals? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 10:58 AM, David Ash < > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > <javascript:;>> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> That's fair. We can definitely do this: > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> One way to do that is to host the meeting, make sure > > > > connectivity > > > > > > > > >>> information for the meeting is available to all, and then > > > send > > > > > out > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > >>> summary after the meeting. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> As for scheduling in advance, I'm considering 48 hours > > enough > > > > for > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > >> kickoff meeting because it's really an emergency meeting > > > under a > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > >> positive name. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> As for the temporary regular meetings, the time and day > > would > > > be > > > > > set > > > > > > > > well > > > > > > > > >> in advance because we'd be deciding it over the next > couple > > of > > > > > days. > > > > > > > > And > > > > > > > > >> so far, I've been using UTC (AKA GMT) for my times even > > though > > > > I'm > > > > > > > > >> personally in US Mountain Time. I plan to continue doing > > so, > > > > and > > > > > I > > > > > > > > agree > > > > > > > > >> that it's beneficial. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> I can appreciate your assistance to help us operate within > > the > > > > > > > > >> requirements set by the ASF. I don't know the > requirements > > > yet, > > > > > so > > > > > > > > having > > > > > > > > >> someone with your knowledge (and responsiveness) is great. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> Thanks, > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> David > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 10:32 AM, John D. Ament < > > > > > > > [email protected] <javascript:;>> > > > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>> One of the reasons that mailing lists are used is to > avoid > > > > > > > co-location > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > >>> contributors being a requirement. This doesn't mean that > > > using > > > > > > tools > > > > > > > > >>> like > > > > > > > > >>> slack, IRC, hipchat aren't allowed. I would expect the > > > > community > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > >>> build > > > > > > > > >>> some level of governance around how communication from > the > > > real > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > >>> aspects move into near-real-time channels (e.g. mailing > > > lists). > > > > > > One > > > > > > > > way > > > > > > > > >>> to > > > > > > > > >>> do that is to host the meeting, make sure connectivity > > > > > information > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > >>> the > > > > > > > > >>> meeting is available to all, and then send out a summary > > > after > > > > > the > > > > > > > > >>> meeting. Try to schedule as much in advance as possible > > and > > > > pick > > > > > > > times > > > > > > > > >>> focused on UTC (e.g. publish your times in UTC), even if > > the > > > > > actual > > > > > > > UTC > > > > > > > > >>> time is not reasonable for all. > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> I'm here to make sure you guys operate within the bounds > of > > > the > > > > > ASF > > > > > > > > >>> requirements. Its up to the community to say they agree > > with > > > > how > > > > > > > > you're > > > > > > > > >>> planning to operate. > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> John > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 12:17 PM David Ash < > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > <javascript:;>> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > John, > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > Thanks for that link! Very useful, for much more than > > the > > > > > > > > >>> communication > > > > > > > > >>> > portion. Any other useful links? We should add these > to > > > the > > > > > > list > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > >>> > links, and include that on our website (hopefully next > > > week). > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > However, I'd still like to continue with my proposal, > > > though > > > > > > > > modified, > > > > > > > > >>> even > > > > > > > > >>> > after reading this section of the linked-to document: > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > Communication is done via mailing lists. These identify > > > > > "virtual > > > > > > > > >>> meeting > > > > > > > > >>> > > rooms" where conversations happen asynchronously, > which > > > is > > > > a > > > > > > > > general > > > > > > > > >>> > > requirement for groups that are so geographically > > > > distributed > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > >>> cover > > > > > > > > >>> > all > > > > > > > > >>> > > time zones (like it's normally the case for the > various > > > > > Apache > > > > > > > > >>> > communities). > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > Some projects additionally use more synchronous > > messaging > > > > > (for > > > > > > > > >>> example, > > > > > > > > >>> > > IRC or instant messaging). Voice communication is > > > extremely > > > > > > rare, > > > > > > > > >>> > normally > > > > > > > > >>> > > because of costs and the language barrier (speech is > > > harder > > > > > to > > > > > > > > >>> understand > > > > > > > > >>> > > than written text). > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > In general, asynchronous communication is much more > > > > important > > > > > > > > >>> because it > > > > > > > > >>> > > allows archives to be created and it's more tolerant > on > > > the > > > > > > > > volunteer > > > > > > > > >>> > > nature of the various communities. > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > The typical reason to avoid voice communication is cost > > and > > > > the > > > > > > > > >>> language > > > > > > > > >>> > barrier. At this time, to my knowledge, the group > > consists > > > > of > > > > > > > people > > > > > > > > >>> that > > > > > > > > >>> > do understand and speak English, even if not all > > natively. > > > > And > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > >>> cost of > > > > > > > > >>> > Skype for our small team is nothing. Further, the > > greatest > > > > > cost > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > >>> > members is their time, and voice communication will > > > actually > > > > > > reduce > > > > > > > > >>> that > > > > > > > > >>> > cost -- a one hour voice call can communicate much more > > > than > > > > an > > > > > > > hour > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > >>> > emails. And right now, speed is everything. We need > > > things > > > > to > > > > > > > start > > > > > > > > >>> > moving quickly or this project will unquestionably die. > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > However, I do recognize that this isn't typical. But > I'd > > > > also > > > > > > > > implore > > > > > > > > >>> > everyone to understand that typical isn't going to fix > > this > > > > > > project > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > >>> we > > > > > > > > >>> > need immediate emergency actions for awhile until we're > > > back > > > > on > > > > > > > > >>> track. And > > > > > > > > >>> > once we're back on track, we can go back to status quo. > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > I'd also recognize that not everyone will be able to > > attend > > > > the > > > > > > > > >>> temporary > > > > > > > > >>> > regular meeting, and it's not like we can make it > > mandatory > > > > > > > anyways. > > > > > > > > >>> But > > > > > > > > >>> > I'd like for us to allow people that want to move > quickly > > > be > > > > > able > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > >>> > organize and attend. > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > Finally, regarding team chat: Team chat is both > > synchronous > > > > > > > messaging > > > > > > > > >>> and > > > > > > > > >>> > an archived communication system, and it's much better > > and > > > > > faster > > > > > > > > than > > > > > > > > >>> > email mailing lists in my opinion. > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > How does that sound, John? > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 10:00 AM, John D. Ament < > > > > > > > > [email protected] <javascript:;> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > wrote: > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > > Hey guys > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > I do want to point out that there are some > expectations > > > for > > > > > how > > > > > > > > >>> > > communication happens within the ASF. Please review > - > > > > > > > > >>> > > http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > John > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 11:44 AM Sam Barrett < > > > > > > > > [email protected] <javascript:;>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > I nominate https://slack.com/ for team chat, and > > > > > > > > >>> https://www.join.me/ > > > > > > > > >>> > > for > > > > > > > > >>> > > > screen sharing (supports 10 concurrent users, > > including > > > > the > > > > > > > > >>> caster). > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > I second the proposal of utilizing > > > > https://www.skype.com/ > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > >>> group > > > > > > > > >>> > > > audio/video conferencing (supports 25 concurrent > > users > > > on > > > > > the > > > > > > > > free > > > > > > > > >>> > > > platform). > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > I second the two-week sprint bookended with > > > > > > > > planning/retrospective > > > > > > > > >>> > > > meetings. > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > Ideally, meetings occur on Sundays (in the US). > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 8:57 AM, David Ash < > > > > > > > [email protected] <javascript:;> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > wrote: > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > Hello developers! > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > I have some proposals related to methodology and > > > > > > > > communications. > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > METHODOLOGY > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > I propose that over the course of the next three > > > > months, > > > > > we > > > > > > > > use a > > > > > > > > >>> > loose > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > scrum methodology with two-week sprints, and that > > we > > > > > start > > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > > >>> > > sprints > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > Saturday, April 23rd. > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > COMMUNICATIONS - MEETINGS > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > I further propose that we have a special kickoff > > > > meeting > > > > > on > > > > > > > > >>> Saturday > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > (Apr23) and/or Sunday (Apr24), based on the > > religious > > > > > > needs, > > > > > > > > >>> > > > availability, > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > and preference of attendees. My preference is > > > Sunday. > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > I further propose we have regular meetings every > > two > > > > > weeks > > > > > > > on a > > > > > > > > >>> > > Saturday > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > and/or Sunday at the end of each sprint. These > > > > meetings > > > > > > > should > > > > > > > > >>> be > > > > > > > > >>> > > around > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > an hour, and double as both a Retrospective and a > > > > Sprint > > > > > > > > Planning > > > > > > > > >>> > > > meetings. > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > COMMUNICATIONS - SOLUTIONS > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > I further propose we designate a solution for > > > real-time > > > > > > audio > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > communications to be used for meetings and at > other > > > > > > necessary > > > > > > > > >>> times, > > > > > > > > >>> > > and > > > > > > > > >>> > > > I > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > propose both Skype and telephones as a candidate. > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > I further propose we designate a solution for > > screen > > > > > > sharing > > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > teleconferencing to be used for meetings and at > > other > > > > > > > necessary > > > > > > > > >>> > times, > > > > > > > > >>> > > > and > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > I propose Skype as a candidate. > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > I further propose we use some kind of real-time > > team > > > > chat > > > > > > > > system > > > > > > > > >>> > beyond > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > email. I make no proposal for candidates, but > > > solicit > > > > > this > > > > > > > > >>> audience > > > > > > > > >>> > to > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > propose candidates. > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > PROPOSALS, SOLUTION NOMINATIONS, AND RELATED > > > DISCUSSION > > > > > > > > DEADLINES > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > I further propose that all general discussions > > > > regarding > > > > > > > these > > > > > > > > >>> > > proposals > > > > > > > > >>> > > > in > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > general be completed by 12:00 AM GMT, Friday > April > > > 22. > > > > > > (That > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > >>> 8:00 > > > > > > > > >>> > > PM > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > ET, 7:00 PM CT, 6:00 PM MT, and 5:00 PM PT today, > > > > > Thursday > > > > > > > > April > > > > > > > > >>> 21, > > > > > > > > >>> > > > 2016). > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > I further propose that the date and time of the > > > kickoff > > > > > > > > meeting, > > > > > > > > >>> if > > > > > > > > >>> > we > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > agree a kickoff meeting should in fact be held, > be > > > > > > discussed > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > >>> > > decided > > > > > > > > >>> > > > no > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > later than 12:00 AM GMT, Saturday April 22. I > > think > > > it > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > >>> most > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > useful for developers to state their preference > of > > a > > > > > > meeting > > > > > > > > day > > > > > > > > >>> for > > > > > > > > >>> > > the > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > kickoff and regular meetings. > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > I further propose that all candidates should be > > > > submitted > > > > > > by > > > > > > > > >>> 6:00 AM > > > > > > > > >>> > > GMT > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > Friday, April 22. > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > I further propose that we hold an election of > > > solutions > > > > > via > > > > > > > > email > > > > > > > > >>> > > > starting > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > at 6:00 AM GMT Friday April 22nd, that shall be > > > > completed > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > >>> later > > > > > > > > >>> > than > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > 6:00 AM GMT Saturday, April 22. > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > Please voice any thoughts, concerns, and > comments. > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > Thank you for your time! > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > David Ash > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Cordialement, > > > > > Emmanuel Lécharny > > > > > www.iktek.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
