Thanks! One thing I learned at Zulily is that when leading teams, it's not about managing people as much as managing momentum. It really is the most vital activity we undertake. On Apr 22, 2016 9:21 AM, "Sam Barrett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Thanks for keeping this moving forward and with urgency, David; too many > projects fall by the wayside as devs get disenfranchised and lose the edge. > > On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 9:12 AM, David Ash <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Awesome! Thanks for your contribution Inge! > > > > It's unfortunate that we didn't hear from everyone, but we have to keep > > moving forward aggressively. It's time for voting! > > > > CANDIDATES > > Voice > > * Skype > > * Discord > > > > Screen sharing > > * Skype > > * join.me > > > > Team chat > > * HipChat > > * Discord > > * Skype > > * Slack > > > > > > MY VOTE > > 1. Voice - Skype > > 2. Screen sharing - Skype > > 3. Team chat - Slack > > > > Temporary regular meetings: Sunday > > Kickoff meeting: Sunday @ 4:00 PM UTC > > > > > > VOTES SO FAR > > Sam > > 1. Voice - Skype > > 2. Screen sharing - join.me > > 3. Team chat - Slack > > > > Temporary regular meetings: Sunday > > Kickoff meeting: Sunday @ ? > > > > Inge > > 1. Voice - Skype > > 2. Screen sharing - Skype > > 3. Team chat - Slack > > > > Temporary regular meetings: ? > > Kickoff meeting: ? > > > > > > VOTING > > > > Please cast or update your vote for solutions no later than Saturday, > April > > 23rd @ 6AM UTC. > > Please cast or update your vote for kickoff day and time no later than > > Saturday, April 23rd @ 12AM UTC. > > > > > > > > Thanks for your involvement! > > > > David Ash > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 21, 2016 3:45 PM, "Inge Olaisen" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > Methodology looks fine, 2 week sprints seems reasonable to me. The > > details > > > of what a loose scrum entails I guess we can take when we have the > > kickoff > > > meeting, because I'm more used to a firm Agile Scrum setup. > > > > > > Communication option that works best for me, at least for voice > > > communication would be Skype/Discord since I'm not located in the US. > > > Although I would favor Skype because of the screen sharing option > > > available. > > > Chat options I would consider IRC old fashioned and lacking in so many > > > regards, so HipChat, Discord, Skype and Slack works better for me. I do > > > favor Slack as the better option, but in all honestly as long as you > can > > > chat it is good. > > > > > > // Inge > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 7:07 PM, David Ash <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > Also, John, were you nominating IRC or hipchat over slack when you > > listed > > > > those team chat options? > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 11:04 AM, David Ash <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I think what Sam is trying to say here is he doesn't appreciate > > > > > bureaucracy getting in the way of progress. I also see red tape > as a > > > > major > > > > > threat to getting some momentum rolling. > > > > > > > > > > That having been said, I think we've arrived at a compromise that > > > allows > > > > > us to move quickly without diverging greatly from the intentions of > > the > > > > > ASF. I appreciate the time and positions of everyone here, and > think > > > > this > > > > > diversity is what helps us move forward. > > > > > > > > > > So, let's move forward. > > > > > > > > > > John - with your developer hat on, do you have any thoughts on > these > > > > > proposals? > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 10:58 AM, David Ash <[email protected]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> That's fair. We can definitely do this: > > > > >> > > > > >> One way to do that is to host the meeting, make sure connectivity > > > > >>> information for the meeting is available to all, and then send > out > > a > > > > >>> summary after the meeting. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> As for scheduling in advance, I'm considering 48 hours enough for > > this > > > > >> kickoff meeting because it's really an emergency meeting under a > > more > > > > >> positive name. > > > > >> > > > > >> As for the temporary regular meetings, the time and day would be > set > > > > well > > > > >> in advance because we'd be deciding it over the next couple of > days. > > > > And > > > > >> so far, I've been using UTC (AKA GMT) for my times even though I'm > > > > >> personally in US Mountain Time. I plan to continue doing so, and > I > > > > agree > > > > >> that it's beneficial. > > > > >> > > > > >> I can appreciate your assistance to help us operate within the > > > > >> requirements set by the ASF. I don't know the requirements yet, > so > > > > having > > > > >> someone with your knowledge (and responsiveness) is great. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Thanks, > > > > >> > > > > >> David > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 10:32 AM, John D. Ament < > > > [email protected]> > > > > >> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >>> One of the reasons that mailing lists are used is to avoid > > > co-location > > > > of > > > > >>> contributors being a requirement. This doesn't mean that using > > tools > > > > >>> like > > > > >>> slack, IRC, hipchat aren't allowed. I would expect the community > > to > > > > >>> build > > > > >>> some level of governance around how communication from the real > > time > > > > >>> aspects move into near-real-time channels (e.g. mailing lists). > > One > > > > way > > > > >>> to > > > > >>> do that is to host the meeting, make sure connectivity > information > > > for > > > > >>> the > > > > >>> meeting is available to all, and then send out a summary after > the > > > > >>> meeting. Try to schedule as much in advance as possible and pick > > > times > > > > >>> focused on UTC (e.g. publish your times in UTC), even if the > actual > > > UTC > > > > >>> time is not reasonable for all. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> I'm here to make sure you guys operate within the bounds of the > ASF > > > > >>> requirements. Its up to the community to say they agree with how > > > > you're > > > > >>> planning to operate. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> John > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 12:17 PM David Ash <[email protected] > > > > > > wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > John, > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > Thanks for that link! Very useful, for much more than the > > > > >>> communication > > > > >>> > portion. Any other useful links? We should add these to the > > list > > > of > > > > >>> > links, and include that on our website (hopefully next week). > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > However, I'd still like to continue with my proposal, though > > > > modified, > > > > >>> even > > > > >>> > after reading this section of the linked-to document: > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > Communication is done via mailing lists. These identify > "virtual > > > > >>> meeting > > > > >>> > > rooms" where conversations happen asynchronously, which is a > > > > general > > > > >>> > > requirement for groups that are so geographically distributed > > to > > > > >>> cover > > > > >>> > all > > > > >>> > > time zones (like it's normally the case for the various > Apache > > > > >>> > communities). > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > Some projects additionally use more synchronous messaging > (for > > > > >>> example, > > > > >>> > > IRC or instant messaging). Voice communication is extremely > > rare, > > > > >>> > normally > > > > >>> > > because of costs and the language barrier (speech is harder > to > > > > >>> understand > > > > >>> > > than written text). > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > In general, asynchronous communication is much more important > > > > >>> because it > > > > >>> > > allows archives to be created and it's more tolerant on the > > > > volunteer > > > > >>> > > nature of the various communities. > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > The typical reason to avoid voice communication is cost and the > > > > >>> language > > > > >>> > barrier. At this time, to my knowledge, the group consists of > > > people > > > > >>> that > > > > >>> > do understand and speak English, even if not all natively. And > > the > > > > >>> cost of > > > > >>> > Skype for our small team is nothing. Further, the greatest > cost > > to > > > > our > > > > >>> > members is their time, and voice communication will actually > > reduce > > > > >>> that > > > > >>> > cost -- a one hour voice call can communicate much more than an > > > hour > > > > of > > > > >>> > emails. And right now, speed is everything. We need things to > > > start > > > > >>> > moving quickly or this project will unquestionably die. > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > However, I do recognize that this isn't typical. But I'd also > > > > implore > > > > >>> > everyone to understand that typical isn't going to fix this > > project > > > > -- > > > > >>> we > > > > >>> > need immediate emergency actions for awhile until we're back on > > > > >>> track. And > > > > >>> > once we're back on track, we can go back to status quo. > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > I'd also recognize that not everyone will be able to attend the > > > > >>> temporary > > > > >>> > regular meeting, and it's not like we can make it mandatory > > > anyways. > > > > >>> But > > > > >>> > I'd like for us to allow people that want to move quickly be > able > > > to > > > > >>> > organize and attend. > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > Finally, regarding team chat: Team chat is both synchronous > > > messaging > > > > >>> and > > > > >>> > an archived communication system, and it's much better and > faster > > > > than > > > > >>> > email mailing lists in my opinion. > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > How does that sound, John? > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 10:00 AM, John D. Ament < > > > > [email protected] > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > Hey guys > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > I do want to point out that there are some expectations for > how > > > > >>> > > communication happens within the ASF. Please review - > > > > >>> > > http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > John > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 11:44 AM Sam Barrett < > > > > [email protected]> > > > > >>> > > wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > I nominate https://slack.com/ for team chat, and > > > > >>> https://www.join.me/ > > > > >>> > > for > > > > >>> > > > screen sharing (supports 10 concurrent users, including the > > > > >>> caster). > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > I second the proposal of utilizing https://www.skype.com/ > > for > > > > >>> group > > > > >>> > > > audio/video conferencing (supports 25 concurrent users on > the > > > > free > > > > >>> > > > platform). > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > I second the two-week sprint bookended with > > > > planning/retrospective > > > > >>> > > > meetings. > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > Ideally, meetings occur on Sundays (in the US). > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 8:57 AM, David Ash < > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > >>> > wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > Hello developers! > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > I have some proposals related to methodology and > > > > communications. > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > METHODOLOGY > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > I propose that over the course of the next three months, > we > > > > use a > > > > >>> > loose > > > > >>> > > > > scrum methodology with two-week sprints, and that we > start > > > > those > > > > >>> > > sprints > > > > >>> > > > > Saturday, April 23rd. > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > COMMUNICATIONS - MEETINGS > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > I further propose that we have a special kickoff meeting > on > > > > >>> Saturday > > > > >>> > > > > (Apr23) and/or Sunday (Apr24), based on the religious > > needs, > > > > >>> > > > availability, > > > > >>> > > > > and preference of attendees. My preference is Sunday. > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > I further propose we have regular meetings every two > weeks > > > on a > > > > >>> > > Saturday > > > > >>> > > > > and/or Sunday at the end of each sprint. These meetings > > > should > > > > >>> be > > > > >>> > > around > > > > >>> > > > > an hour, and double as both a Retrospective and a Sprint > > > > Planning > > > > >>> > > > meetings. > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > COMMUNICATIONS - SOLUTIONS > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > I further propose we designate a solution for real-time > > audio > > > > >>> > > > > communications to be used for meetings and at other > > necessary > > > > >>> times, > > > > >>> > > and > > > > >>> > > > I > > > > >>> > > > > propose both Skype and telephones as a candidate. > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > I further propose we designate a solution for screen > > sharing > > > / > > > > >>> > > > > teleconferencing to be used for meetings and at other > > > necessary > > > > >>> > times, > > > > >>> > > > and > > > > >>> > > > > I propose Skype as a candidate. > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > I further propose we use some kind of real-time team chat > > > > system > > > > >>> > beyond > > > > >>> > > > > email. I make no proposal for candidates, but solicit > this > > > > >>> audience > > > > >>> > to > > > > >>> > > > > propose candidates. > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > PROPOSALS, SOLUTION NOMINATIONS, AND RELATED DISCUSSION > > > > DEADLINES > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > I further propose that all general discussions regarding > > > these > > > > >>> > > proposals > > > > >>> > > > in > > > > >>> > > > > general be completed by 12:00 AM GMT, Friday April 22. > > (That > > > > is > > > > >>> 8:00 > > > > >>> > > PM > > > > >>> > > > > ET, 7:00 PM CT, 6:00 PM MT, and 5:00 PM PT today, > Thursday > > > > April > > > > >>> 21, > > > > >>> > > > 2016). > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > I further propose that the date and time of the kickoff > > > > meeting, > > > > >>> if > > > > >>> > we > > > > >>> > > > > agree a kickoff meeting should in fact be held, be > > discussed > > > > and > > > > >>> > > decided > > > > >>> > > > no > > > > >>> > > > > later than 12:00 AM GMT, Saturday April 22. I think it > > would > > > > be > > > > >>> most > > > > >>> > > > > useful for developers to state their preference of a > > meeting > > > > day > > > > >>> for > > > > >>> > > the > > > > >>> > > > > kickoff and regular meetings. > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > I further propose that all candidates should be submitted > > by > > > > >>> 6:00 AM > > > > >>> > > GMT > > > > >>> > > > > Friday, April 22. > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > I further propose that we hold an election of solutions > via > > > > email > > > > >>> > > > starting > > > > >>> > > > > at 6:00 AM GMT Friday April 22nd, that shall be completed > > no > > > > >>> later > > > > >>> > than > > > > >>> > > > > 6:00 AM GMT Saturday, April 22. > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > Please voice any thoughts, concerns, and comments. > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > Thank you for your time! > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > David Ash > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
