Hi, Methodology looks fine, 2 week sprints seems reasonable to me. The details of what a loose scrum entails I guess we can take when we have the kickoff meeting, because I'm more used to a firm Agile Scrum setup.
Communication option that works best for me, at least for voice communication would be Skype/Discord since I'm not located in the US. Although I would favor Skype because of the screen sharing option available. Chat options I would consider IRC old fashioned and lacking in so many regards, so HipChat, Discord, Skype and Slack works better for me. I do favor Slack as the better option, but in all honestly as long as you can chat it is good. // Inge On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 7:07 PM, David Ash <[email protected]> wrote: > Also, John, were you nominating IRC or hipchat over slack when you listed > those team chat options? > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 11:04 AM, David Ash <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I think what Sam is trying to say here is he doesn't appreciate > > bureaucracy getting in the way of progress. I also see red tape as a > major > > threat to getting some momentum rolling. > > > > That having been said, I think we've arrived at a compromise that allows > > us to move quickly without diverging greatly from the intentions of the > > ASF. I appreciate the time and positions of everyone here, and think > this > > diversity is what helps us move forward. > > > > So, let's move forward. > > > > John - with your developer hat on, do you have any thoughts on these > > proposals? > > > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 10:58 AM, David Ash <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > >> That's fair. We can definitely do this: > >> > >> One way to do that is to host the meeting, make sure connectivity > >>> information for the meeting is available to all, and then send out a > >>> summary after the meeting. > >> > >> > >> As for scheduling in advance, I'm considering 48 hours enough for this > >> kickoff meeting because it's really an emergency meeting under a more > >> positive name. > >> > >> As for the temporary regular meetings, the time and day would be set > well > >> in advance because we'd be deciding it over the next couple of days. > And > >> so far, I've been using UTC (AKA GMT) for my times even though I'm > >> personally in US Mountain Time. I plan to continue doing so, and I > agree > >> that it's beneficial. > >> > >> I can appreciate your assistance to help us operate within the > >> requirements set by the ASF. I don't know the requirements yet, so > having > >> someone with your knowledge (and responsiveness) is great. > >> > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> David > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 10:32 AM, John D. Ament <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> One of the reasons that mailing lists are used is to avoid co-location > of > >>> contributors being a requirement. This doesn't mean that using tools > >>> like > >>> slack, IRC, hipchat aren't allowed. I would expect the community to > >>> build > >>> some level of governance around how communication from the real time > >>> aspects move into near-real-time channels (e.g. mailing lists). One > way > >>> to > >>> do that is to host the meeting, make sure connectivity information for > >>> the > >>> meeting is available to all, and then send out a summary after the > >>> meeting. Try to schedule as much in advance as possible and pick times > >>> focused on UTC (e.g. publish your times in UTC), even if the actual UTC > >>> time is not reasonable for all. > >>> > >>> I'm here to make sure you guys operate within the bounds of the ASF > >>> requirements. Its up to the community to say they agree with how > you're > >>> planning to operate. > >>> > >>> John > >>> > >>> > >>> On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 12:17 PM David Ash <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>> > >>> > John, > >>> > > >>> > Thanks for that link! Very useful, for much more than the > >>> communication > >>> > portion. Any other useful links? We should add these to the list of > >>> > links, and include that on our website (hopefully next week). > >>> > > >>> > However, I'd still like to continue with my proposal, though > modified, > >>> even > >>> > after reading this section of the linked-to document: > >>> > > >>> > Communication is done via mailing lists. These identify "virtual > >>> meeting > >>> > > rooms" where conversations happen asynchronously, which is a > general > >>> > > requirement for groups that are so geographically distributed to > >>> cover > >>> > all > >>> > > time zones (like it's normally the case for the various Apache > >>> > communities). > >>> > > > >>> > > Some projects additionally use more synchronous messaging (for > >>> example, > >>> > > IRC or instant messaging). Voice communication is extremely rare, > >>> > normally > >>> > > because of costs and the language barrier (speech is harder to > >>> understand > >>> > > than written text). > >>> > > > >>> > > In general, asynchronous communication is much more important > >>> because it > >>> > > allows archives to be created and it's more tolerant on the > volunteer > >>> > > nature of the various communities. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > The typical reason to avoid voice communication is cost and the > >>> language > >>> > barrier. At this time, to my knowledge, the group consists of people > >>> that > >>> > do understand and speak English, even if not all natively. And the > >>> cost of > >>> > Skype for our small team is nothing. Further, the greatest cost to > our > >>> > members is their time, and voice communication will actually reduce > >>> that > >>> > cost -- a one hour voice call can communicate much more than an hour > of > >>> > emails. And right now, speed is everything. We need things to start > >>> > moving quickly or this project will unquestionably die. > >>> > > >>> > However, I do recognize that this isn't typical. But I'd also > implore > >>> > everyone to understand that typical isn't going to fix this project > -- > >>> we > >>> > need immediate emergency actions for awhile until we're back on > >>> track. And > >>> > once we're back on track, we can go back to status quo. > >>> > > >>> > I'd also recognize that not everyone will be able to attend the > >>> temporary > >>> > regular meeting, and it's not like we can make it mandatory anyways. > >>> But > >>> > I'd like for us to allow people that want to move quickly be able to > >>> > organize and attend. > >>> > > >>> > Finally, regarding team chat: Team chat is both synchronous messaging > >>> and > >>> > an archived communication system, and it's much better and faster > than > >>> > email mailing lists in my opinion. > >>> > > >>> > How does that sound, John? > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 10:00 AM, John D. Ament < > [email protected] > >>> > > >>> > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > Hey guys > >>> > > > >>> > > I do want to point out that there are some expectations for how > >>> > > communication happens within the ASF. Please review - > >>> > > http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html > >>> > > > >>> > > John > >>> > > > >>> > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 11:44 AM Sam Barrett < > [email protected]> > >>> > > wrote: > >>> > > > >>> > > > I nominate https://slack.com/ for team chat, and > >>> https://www.join.me/ > >>> > > for > >>> > > > screen sharing (supports 10 concurrent users, including the > >>> caster). > >>> > > > > >>> > > > I second the proposal of utilizing https://www.skype.com/ for > >>> group > >>> > > > audio/video conferencing (supports 25 concurrent users on the > free > >>> > > > platform). > >>> > > > > >>> > > > I second the two-week sprint bookended with > planning/retrospective > >>> > > > meetings. > >>> > > > > >>> > > > Ideally, meetings occur on Sundays (in the US). > >>> > > > > >>> > > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 8:57 AM, David Ash <[email protected] > > > >>> > wrote: > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Hello developers! > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > I have some proposals related to methodology and > communications. > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > METHODOLOGY > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > I propose that over the course of the next three months, we > use a > >>> > loose > >>> > > > > scrum methodology with two-week sprints, and that we start > those > >>> > > sprints > >>> > > > > Saturday, April 23rd. > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > COMMUNICATIONS - MEETINGS > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > I further propose that we have a special kickoff meeting on > >>> Saturday > >>> > > > > (Apr23) and/or Sunday (Apr24), based on the religious needs, > >>> > > > availability, > >>> > > > > and preference of attendees. My preference is Sunday. > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > I further propose we have regular meetings every two weeks on a > >>> > > Saturday > >>> > > > > and/or Sunday at the end of each sprint. These meetings should > >>> be > >>> > > around > >>> > > > > an hour, and double as both a Retrospective and a Sprint > Planning > >>> > > > meetings. > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > COMMUNICATIONS - SOLUTIONS > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > I further propose we designate a solution for real-time audio > >>> > > > > communications to be used for meetings and at other necessary > >>> times, > >>> > > and > >>> > > > I > >>> > > > > propose both Skype and telephones as a candidate. > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > I further propose we designate a solution for screen sharing / > >>> > > > > teleconferencing to be used for meetings and at other necessary > >>> > times, > >>> > > > and > >>> > > > > I propose Skype as a candidate. > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > I further propose we use some kind of real-time team chat > system > >>> > beyond > >>> > > > > email. I make no proposal for candidates, but solicit this > >>> audience > >>> > to > >>> > > > > propose candidates. > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > PROPOSALS, SOLUTION NOMINATIONS, AND RELATED DISCUSSION > DEADLINES > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > I further propose that all general discussions regarding these > >>> > > proposals > >>> > > > in > >>> > > > > general be completed by 12:00 AM GMT, Friday April 22. (That > is > >>> 8:00 > >>> > > PM > >>> > > > > ET, 7:00 PM CT, 6:00 PM MT, and 5:00 PM PT today, Thursday > April > >>> 21, > >>> > > > 2016). > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > I further propose that the date and time of the kickoff > meeting, > >>> if > >>> > we > >>> > > > > agree a kickoff meeting should in fact be held, be discussed > and > >>> > > decided > >>> > > > no > >>> > > > > later than 12:00 AM GMT, Saturday April 22. I think it would > be > >>> most > >>> > > > > useful for developers to state their preference of a meeting > day > >>> for > >>> > > the > >>> > > > > kickoff and regular meetings. > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > I further propose that all candidates should be submitted by > >>> 6:00 AM > >>> > > GMT > >>> > > > > Friday, April 22. > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > I further propose that we hold an election of solutions via > email > >>> > > > starting > >>> > > > > at 6:00 AM GMT Friday April 22nd, that shall be completed no > >>> later > >>> > than > >>> > > > > 6:00 AM GMT Saturday, April 22. > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > Please voice any thoughts, concerns, and comments. > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > Thank you for your time! > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > David Ash > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > >> > >> > > >
