Yeah, that's a good enough path forward. Can you set up the chat stuff, or would you prefer me to do that?
I can help with the repo stuff too, although we need the website repo mirrored onto github before we work on that and it seems like it could be weeks before someone that has that ability will do it. But to get the source code for the main project, just fork the github repo: https://github.com/apache/incubator-openaz Then clone your fork. Any changes you make will be made to your fork, and you can then use github to make pull requests. It's not particularly functional until the admin portion is there, and my pull request that ported over the admin portion is still in github, unmerged. On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 1:02 AM, Inge Olaisen <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi David, > > First and foremost I think we should start up the chat client, get that up. > Get the admin stuff up. Get the repo up so it is possible to familiarize > oneself with the project and its current status. > Once that is done, it is possible to see where we are and it becomes easier > to see what is required. > > // > Inge > > > > > > On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 9:52 AM, David Ash <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Okay, we never managed to get a vote through regarding time anyways. So > > there's not going to be a meeting because advanced notice can't be met at > > this point. And we can add two votes against having the meeting, also, > and > > one of them being cast many days after the original email. And we never > > heard from all the developers. And we never heard from the PMC on the > other > > thread. > > > > So we couldn't pull off an emergency meeting. We couldn't pull that off? > > Sam and Inge, you were both involved, and thanks. John was there. > Emmanuel > > was late, but he showed up. > > > > But we failed. Hopes of wasted emails. Really? There's not much work to > do > > to get this software into an initial release. But if we can't > successfully > > coordinate an emergency meeting over the course of 4 days we're probably > > doomed after all. > > > > Well, unless either one or more of us just start working without > > coordinating. Pocket development could work. Coordinating and voting is > > just hopeless though. I mean we could just start making tasks and > assigning > > them out, we could call that coordinating. But I don't give people 4 days > > to say they can't do a task. That's not acceptable. No, I've spent > several > > hours on these emails. We haven't accomplished 5 minutes worth of > > anything... not even close to what we could do on a real time voice > call. I > > can't afford that time for that little result. > > > > Now if the PMC had stepped up and at least replied about making us > > committers, maybe that would be something. But it's all crickets there. > > > > How do we move forward? > > On Apr 23, 2016 8:37 PM, "Emmanuel Lecharny" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > Sorry not to be able to reply responsively...(vacations) > > > > > > Comments inline... > > > > > > Le vendredi 22 avril 2016, David Ash <[email protected]> a écrit : > > > > > > > Awesome! Thanks for your contribution Inge! > > > > > > > > It's unfortunate that we didn't hear from everyone, but we have to > keep > > > > moving forward aggressively. It's time for voting! > > > > > > > > CANDIDATES > > > > Voice > > > > * Skype > > > > * Discord > > > > > > > > > Please, no voice communication, no schefuled meetings. This will simply > > > won't work across timezones. Sunday is generally a sacred familly day: > ie > > > we are all deficated and hard worker developpers, who probably had cut > a > > > deal with spouse/husband : sunday is a ´no computer day' ! > > > > > > > > > > > Screen sharing > > > > * Skype > > > > * join.me > > > > > > > > > Same pb, but can be useful from tome to time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Team chat > > > > * HipChat > > > > * Discord > > > > * Skype > > > > * Slack > > > > > > > > > Same as voice channel : does not work well across tz. Such real time > > > communication channel are somehow excluding people from the team in the > > > long run... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > MY VOTE > > > > 1. Voice - Skype > > > > 2. Screen sharing - Skype > > > > 3. Team chat - Slack > > > > > > > > Temporary regular meetings: Sunday > > > > Kickoff meeting: Sunday @ 4:00 PM UTC > > > > > > > > > Typically, this is 6:30 pm in France. 12h30 in NY, 9:30 in SF, midnight > > in > > > New Delhi(not to mention Australia). We tried such meetings on another > > > project, with people from South Korea, Turkey, France and USA: a > failure. > > > > > > As ´retarded' as it sounds, mailing list simply works: asynchronous, > > > archived, possible parallel threads: all what you need;-) > > > > > > Emmanuel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > VOTES SO FAR > > > > Sam > > > > 1. Voice - Skype > > > > 2. Screen sharing - join.me > > > > 3. Team chat - Slack > > > > > > > > Temporary regular meetings: Sunday > > > > Kickoff meeting: Sunday @ ? > > > > > > > > Inge > > > > 1. Voice - Skype > > > > 2. Screen sharing - Skype > > > > 3. Team chat - Slack > > > > > > > > Temporary regular meetings: ? > > > > Kickoff meeting: ? > > > > > > > > > > > > VOTING > > > > > > > > Please cast or update your vote for solutions no later than Saturday, > > > April > > > > 23rd @ 6AM UTC. > > > > Please cast or update your vote for kickoff day and time no later > than > > > > Saturday, April 23rd @ 12AM UTC. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for your involvement! > > > > > > > > David Ash > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 21, 2016 3:45 PM, "Inge Olaisen" <[email protected] > > > > <javascript:;>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > Methodology looks fine, 2 week sprints seems reasonable to me. The > > > > details > > > > > of what a loose scrum entails I guess we can take when we have the > > > > kickoff > > > > > meeting, because I'm more used to a firm Agile Scrum setup. > > > > > > > > > > Communication option that works best for me, at least for voice > > > > > communication would be Skype/Discord since I'm not located in the > US. > > > > > Although I would favor Skype because of the screen sharing option > > > > > available. > > > > > Chat options I would consider IRC old fashioned and lacking in so > > many > > > > > regards, so HipChat, Discord, Skype and Slack works better for me. > I > > do > > > > > favor Slack as the better option, but in all honestly as long as > you > > > can > > > > > chat it is good. > > > > > > > > > > // Inge > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 7:07 PM, David Ash <[email protected] > > > > <javascript:;>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Also, John, were you nominating IRC or hipchat over slack when > you > > > > listed > > > > > > those team chat options? > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 11:04 AM, David Ash < > [email protected] > > > > <javascript:;>> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think what Sam is trying to say here is he doesn't appreciate > > > > > > > bureaucracy getting in the way of progress. I also see red > tape > > > as a > > > > > > major > > > > > > > threat to getting some momentum rolling. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That having been said, I think we've arrived at a compromise > that > > > > > allows > > > > > > > us to move quickly without diverging greatly from the > intentions > > of > > > > the > > > > > > > ASF. I appreciate the time and positions of everyone here, and > > > think > > > > > > this > > > > > > > diversity is what helps us move forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, let's move forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > John - with your developer hat on, do you have any thoughts on > > > these > > > > > > > proposals? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 10:58 AM, David Ash < > > [email protected] > > > > <javascript:;>> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> That's fair. We can definitely do this: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> One way to do that is to host the meeting, make sure > > connectivity > > > > > > >>> information for the meeting is available to all, and then > send > > > out > > > > a > > > > > > >>> summary after the meeting. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> As for scheduling in advance, I'm considering 48 hours enough > > for > > > > this > > > > > > >> kickoff meeting because it's really an emergency meeting > under a > > > > more > > > > > > >> positive name. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> As for the temporary regular meetings, the time and day would > be > > > set > > > > > > well > > > > > > >> in advance because we'd be deciding it over the next couple of > > > days. > > > > > > And > > > > > > >> so far, I've been using UTC (AKA GMT) for my times even though > > I'm > > > > > > >> personally in US Mountain Time. I plan to continue doing so, > > and > > > I > > > > > > agree > > > > > > >> that it's beneficial. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> I can appreciate your assistance to help us operate within the > > > > > > >> requirements set by the ASF. I don't know the requirements > yet, > > > so > > > > > > having > > > > > > >> someone with your knowledge (and responsiveness) is great. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Thanks, > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> David > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 10:32 AM, John D. Ament < > > > > > [email protected] <javascript:;>> > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >>> One of the reasons that mailing lists are used is to avoid > > > > > co-location > > > > > > of > > > > > > >>> contributors being a requirement. This doesn't mean that > using > > > > tools > > > > > > >>> like > > > > > > >>> slack, IRC, hipchat aren't allowed. I would expect the > > community > > > > to > > > > > > >>> build > > > > > > >>> some level of governance around how communication from the > real > > > > time > > > > > > >>> aspects move into near-real-time channels (e.g. mailing > lists). > > > > One > > > > > > way > > > > > > >>> to > > > > > > >>> do that is to host the meeting, make sure connectivity > > > information > > > > > for > > > > > > >>> the > > > > > > >>> meeting is available to all, and then send out a summary > after > > > the > > > > > > >>> meeting. Try to schedule as much in advance as possible and > > pick > > > > > times > > > > > > >>> focused on UTC (e.g. publish your times in UTC), even if the > > > actual > > > > > UTC > > > > > > >>> time is not reasonable for all. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> I'm here to make sure you guys operate within the bounds of > the > > > ASF > > > > > > >>> requirements. Its up to the community to say they agree with > > how > > > > > > you're > > > > > > >>> planning to operate. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> John > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 12:17 PM David Ash < > > [email protected] > > > > <javascript:;>> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > John, > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > Thanks for that link! Very useful, for much more than the > > > > > > >>> communication > > > > > > >>> > portion. Any other useful links? We should add these to > the > > > > list > > > > > of > > > > > > >>> > links, and include that on our website (hopefully next > week). > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > However, I'd still like to continue with my proposal, > though > > > > > > modified, > > > > > > >>> even > > > > > > >>> > after reading this section of the linked-to document: > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > Communication is done via mailing lists. These identify > > > "virtual > > > > > > >>> meeting > > > > > > >>> > > rooms" where conversations happen asynchronously, which > is > > a > > > > > > general > > > > > > >>> > > requirement for groups that are so geographically > > distributed > > > > to > > > > > > >>> cover > > > > > > >>> > all > > > > > > >>> > > time zones (like it's normally the case for the various > > > Apache > > > > > > >>> > communities). > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > Some projects additionally use more synchronous messaging > > > (for > > > > > > >>> example, > > > > > > >>> > > IRC or instant messaging). Voice communication is > extremely > > > > rare, > > > > > > >>> > normally > > > > > > >>> > > because of costs and the language barrier (speech is > harder > > > to > > > > > > >>> understand > > > > > > >>> > > than written text). > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > In general, asynchronous communication is much more > > important > > > > > > >>> because it > > > > > > >>> > > allows archives to be created and it's more tolerant on > the > > > > > > volunteer > > > > > > >>> > > nature of the various communities. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > The typical reason to avoid voice communication is cost and > > the > > > > > > >>> language > > > > > > >>> > barrier. At this time, to my knowledge, the group consists > > of > > > > > people > > > > > > >>> that > > > > > > >>> > do understand and speak English, even if not all natively. > > And > > > > the > > > > > > >>> cost of > > > > > > >>> > Skype for our small team is nothing. Further, the greatest > > > cost > > > > to > > > > > > our > > > > > > >>> > members is their time, and voice communication will > actually > > > > reduce > > > > > > >>> that > > > > > > >>> > cost -- a one hour voice call can communicate much more > than > > an > > > > > hour > > > > > > of > > > > > > >>> > emails. And right now, speed is everything. We need > things > > to > > > > > start > > > > > > >>> > moving quickly or this project will unquestionably die. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > However, I do recognize that this isn't typical. But I'd > > also > > > > > > implore > > > > > > >>> > everyone to understand that typical isn't going to fix this > > > > project > > > > > > -- > > > > > > >>> we > > > > > > >>> > need immediate emergency actions for awhile until we're > back > > on > > > > > > >>> track. And > > > > > > >>> > once we're back on track, we can go back to status quo. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > I'd also recognize that not everyone will be able to attend > > the > > > > > > >>> temporary > > > > > > >>> > regular meeting, and it's not like we can make it mandatory > > > > > anyways. > > > > > > >>> But > > > > > > >>> > I'd like for us to allow people that want to move quickly > be > > > able > > > > > to > > > > > > >>> > organize and attend. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > Finally, regarding team chat: Team chat is both synchronous > > > > > messaging > > > > > > >>> and > > > > > > >>> > an archived communication system, and it's much better and > > > faster > > > > > > than > > > > > > >>> > email mailing lists in my opinion. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > How does that sound, John? > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 10:00 AM, John D. Ament < > > > > > > [email protected] <javascript:;> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > wrote: > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > Hey guys > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > I do want to point out that there are some expectations > for > > > how > > > > > > >>> > > communication happens within the ASF. Please review - > > > > > > >>> > > http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > John > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 11:44 AM Sam Barrett < > > > > > > [email protected] <javascript:;>> > > > > > > >>> > > wrote: > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > I nominate https://slack.com/ for team chat, and > > > > > > >>> https://www.join.me/ > > > > > > >>> > > for > > > > > > >>> > > > screen sharing (supports 10 concurrent users, including > > the > > > > > > >>> caster). > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > I second the proposal of utilizing > > https://www.skype.com/ > > > > for > > > > > > >>> group > > > > > > >>> > > > audio/video conferencing (supports 25 concurrent users > on > > > the > > > > > > free > > > > > > >>> > > > platform). > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > I second the two-week sprint bookended with > > > > > > planning/retrospective > > > > > > >>> > > > meetings. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > Ideally, meetings occur on Sundays (in the US). > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 8:57 AM, David Ash < > > > > > [email protected] <javascript:;> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > wrote: > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > Hello developers! > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > I have some proposals related to methodology and > > > > > > communications. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > METHODOLOGY > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > I propose that over the course of the next three > > months, > > > we > > > > > > use a > > > > > > >>> > loose > > > > > > >>> > > > > scrum methodology with two-week sprints, and that we > > > start > > > > > > those > > > > > > >>> > > sprints > > > > > > >>> > > > > Saturday, April 23rd. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > COMMUNICATIONS - MEETINGS > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > I further propose that we have a special kickoff > > meeting > > > on > > > > > > >>> Saturday > > > > > > >>> > > > > (Apr23) and/or Sunday (Apr24), based on the religious > > > > needs, > > > > > > >>> > > > availability, > > > > > > >>> > > > > and preference of attendees. My preference is > Sunday. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > I further propose we have regular meetings every two > > > weeks > > > > > on a > > > > > > >>> > > Saturday > > > > > > >>> > > > > and/or Sunday at the end of each sprint. These > > meetings > > > > > should > > > > > > >>> be > > > > > > >>> > > around > > > > > > >>> > > > > an hour, and double as both a Retrospective and a > > Sprint > > > > > > Planning > > > > > > >>> > > > meetings. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > COMMUNICATIONS - SOLUTIONS > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > I further propose we designate a solution for > real-time > > > > audio > > > > > > >>> > > > > communications to be used for meetings and at other > > > > necessary > > > > > > >>> times, > > > > > > >>> > > and > > > > > > >>> > > > I > > > > > > >>> > > > > propose both Skype and telephones as a candidate. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > I further propose we designate a solution for screen > > > > sharing > > > > > / > > > > > > >>> > > > > teleconferencing to be used for meetings and at other > > > > > necessary > > > > > > >>> > times, > > > > > > >>> > > > and > > > > > > >>> > > > > I propose Skype as a candidate. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > I further propose we use some kind of real-time team > > chat > > > > > > system > > > > > > >>> > beyond > > > > > > >>> > > > > email. I make no proposal for candidates, but > solicit > > > this > > > > > > >>> audience > > > > > > >>> > to > > > > > > >>> > > > > propose candidates. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > PROPOSALS, SOLUTION NOMINATIONS, AND RELATED > DISCUSSION > > > > > > DEADLINES > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > I further propose that all general discussions > > regarding > > > > > these > > > > > > >>> > > proposals > > > > > > >>> > > > in > > > > > > >>> > > > > general be completed by 12:00 AM GMT, Friday April > 22. > > > > (That > > > > > > is > > > > > > >>> 8:00 > > > > > > >>> > > PM > > > > > > >>> > > > > ET, 7:00 PM CT, 6:00 PM MT, and 5:00 PM PT today, > > > Thursday > > > > > > April > > > > > > >>> 21, > > > > > > >>> > > > 2016). > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > I further propose that the date and time of the > kickoff > > > > > > meeting, > > > > > > >>> if > > > > > > >>> > we > > > > > > >>> > > > > agree a kickoff meeting should in fact be held, be > > > > discussed > > > > > > and > > > > > > >>> > > decided > > > > > > >>> > > > no > > > > > > >>> > > > > later than 12:00 AM GMT, Saturday April 22. I think > it > > > > would > > > > > > be > > > > > > >>> most > > > > > > >>> > > > > useful for developers to state their preference of a > > > > meeting > > > > > > day > > > > > > >>> for > > > > > > >>> > > the > > > > > > >>> > > > > kickoff and regular meetings. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > I further propose that all candidates should be > > submitted > > > > by > > > > > > >>> 6:00 AM > > > > > > >>> > > GMT > > > > > > >>> > > > > Friday, April 22. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > I further propose that we hold an election of > solutions > > > via > > > > > > email > > > > > > >>> > > > starting > > > > > > >>> > > > > at 6:00 AM GMT Friday April 22nd, that shall be > > completed > > > > no > > > > > > >>> later > > > > > > >>> > than > > > > > > >>> > > > > 6:00 AM GMT Saturday, April 22. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > Please voice any thoughts, concerns, and comments. > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > Thank you for your time! > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > David Ash > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Regards, > > > Cordialement, > > > Emmanuel Lécharny > > > www.iktek.com > > > > > >
