Just a note: I found out the hard way (by clicking on the link) that Trello isn't compatible with Firefox (40.0.3) on Ubuntu (14.04LTS). Like a few other new web frameworks such as Wix it renders as a blank screen. It works just fine with Chrome (this just confirms my Grande Conspiracy Theory regarding Google Taking Over the World).
sigh (and thanks for the invite) On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 5:00 AM, Chris Spiliotopoulos < chrysanthos.spiliotopou...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi all, > > I have created a board over @ Trello > <https://trello.com/b/hUTQuH6q/codename-apache-shindig-2015> where anyone > who wants can write down his wishes regarding the future of the project. > This way we can all have an overall perspective of what most people want to > see happening and everyone can vote. Data never lie. The board is public > but send me an RSVP to add you as members if you want to add stuff. An > invitation should have been already sent to all members in this discussion. > > Kind regards, > Chris > > On Sun, Nov 15, 2015 at 5:07 PM, Darren Bond <db...@globalcad.com> wrote: > > > Hi Chris, > > > > > > > > Thanks for the synopsis of what you do and where you’re coming from. > > Currently our interest and focus is on pretty much everything Shindig has > > to offer, from gadget rendering, canvas view support, UserPref > definitions, > > OpenSocial connections and so on. We’re more or less recreated iGoogle at > > www.blueg.com and have other similar but highly targeted plans for > > www.gamesoft.com relating to the Computer & Video Games market. > > > > > > > > Hopefully we can continue sharing ideas, thoughts and hopes for the > future > > use of the Shindig code base and give it the audience it deserves and > needs. > > > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > > > > > > Darren > > > > > > > > *Darren Bond | Service Manager |* *GlobalCAD* > > > > T +44 1252 703939 > > > > db...@globalcad.com | www.globalcad.com > > > > > > > > *From:* Chris Spiliotopoulos [mailto: > chrysanthos.spiliotopou...@gmail.com] > > > > *Sent:* 13 November 2015 12:52 > > > > *To:* Darren Bond <db...@globalcad.com> > > *Subject:* Re: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project > > > > > > > > Hi Darren, > > > > > > > > long story short - I am a Solutions Architect coming from the Enterprise > > with 15 years of experience on my back. For the last 3-4 years I've been > > focusing mainly in the fields of real-time big data analytics, > dashboarding > > and APIs for highly scalable / distributed systems. Currently I'm > working > > as a contractor for a company in the music streaming business with a > > product which is a direct competitor to Spotify. At the same time I'm > also > > writing dev tools and browser plugins for both internal use and open > source > > communities. > > > > > > > > Now regarding your question, I could naturally get involved supporting > the > > maintenance of the project - given of course a right future and > perspective > > - as I've been working with Java oriented technologies more than I can > > remember but as you can understand my available time slots for this sort > of > > thing would be fairly limited as my time usually gets filled up with very > > diverse tasks. For example, one of my responsibilities within the > context > > of my day time job is to lead the path for our QA / Automation team > (apart > > from the aforementioned tasks) and this takes me down a road of heavy BDD > > oriented deliverables ranging from internal tools and frameworks to > design > > principles. You can have a look at some of the things I'm currently > into @ > > http://chefarchitect.github.io/ which is my personal GitHub space. > > > > > > > > Anyway, I'd be more than happy to contribute shareable resources and > > experiences and if we decide to pay focus in that aspect - rather than > > trying to extend the core components that are pretty robust at the > moment - > > as I truly believe that this is the ground where the 'game' should be > > played. For example, during the last couple of years me and my teams > have > > switched over to other more modern stacks like NodeJS and everything we > > design follows a micro-service principle. One of the things that we'll > be > > developing in the near future is a micro-service for a gadgets > marketplace > > that we need for our product in order to have a purely dynamic way of > > contributing gadgets within our eco-system and dashboards and at the same > > time enable 3rd party devs to do the same as well. This could perfectly > > match the description of a shareable resource that others could plug into > > their eco-systems as a all-in-one bundled Docker container that contains > > the API, store engine, etc. If we start sharing real-life experiences in > > the form of deployable components I'm 100% sure that this would trigger > > others to start building on top of working services without having to > > re-invent the wheel. > > > > > > > > As a close-up line, I'm quoting a dialogue from the latest James Bond > > movie that I came across through the trailer: > > > > > > > > James (to the bad guy): "I'm here to kill you" > > Bad guy (to James): "Oh, I thought you were here to die" > > James: "Well, everything is a matter of perspective" ;) > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 2:11 PM, Darren Bond <db...@globalcad.com> > wrote: > > > > Hi Chris, > > > > > > > > Thanks for the explanation. Can you remind me of your background and > > skills – are you a full time developer? Are you intending to contribute > to > > the future development of Java Shindig yourself? I’m excited as to the > > future possibilities but a little unclear who will actually develop the > > beast that is Apache Shindig! > > > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > > > > > > Darren > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Chris Spiliotopoulos [mailto: > chrysanthos.spiliotopou...@gmail.com] > > > > *Sent:* 12 November 2015 17:29 > > *To:* Darren Bond <db...@globalcad.com> > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project > > > > > > > > Hi Darren, > > > > > > > > there is no misunderstanding whatsoever. My proposition is that the > > project gets decoupled without breaking any of the dependencies. I > > understand that from your position & role you're not expected to know the > > architecture of the project itself, but these two functionalities are > > already separated. The OpenSocial API is implemented as a separate > library > > from the container. All artifacts can be built separately (and > distributed > > separately in that sense) but the main reason that everything is bundled > in > > one monolithic project is versioning. > > > > > > > > As you can understand, until now both the social API and the gadget > engine > > were promoted under the OpenSocial umbrella as one. But history has > shown > > that there was no real interest by the major players in the social > > networking business in adopting the OpenSocial spec - apart from Google > > with their failed Orkut attempt - and therefore there was not space for > it > > to evolve. Ever since then it got stuck in time and unfortunately has > > become an extra burden for the rest of the components. > > > > > > > > Still, if things were to be separated there would be no issues since > > different components would have different versions and maintained > > independently. > > > > > > > > Hope that helped you a bit :) > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 7:15 PM, Darren Bond <db...@globalcad.com> > wrote: > > > > Hi Chris, > > > > Just a quick note to say that our sites like www.blueg.com are entirely > > reliant on the OpenSocial side of things. Any future version of Shindig > (or > > whatever it gets called!) would not be much use to us if the OpenSocial > > aspect was stripped out. Apologies if I've not understood you correctly. > > > > Kind regards, > > > > Darren > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ichiro Furusato [mailto:ichiro.furus...@gmail.com] > > Sent: 11 November 2015 22:01 > > To: dev@shindig.apache.org > > Subject: Re: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project > > > > Hi Chris, > > > > Thanks very much for your long and thoughtful message regarding the > Apache > > Shindig project. > > > > As I've described previously, we've made an initial investment in time > and > > up-skilling, gone through a proof-of-concept and prototype phase and > await > > funding for a rebuild of our weather displays using the Gadget hosting > and > > rendering facilities provided by Shindig. We are planning to host our > > services over Liferay, using its embedded Shindig service. I've also > > managed to build out a prototype of Shindig-over-Jetty as a much lighter > > host should we decide not to use Liferay for all of our services. As you, > > we've focused mostly on the Gadget containment and rendering provided by > > Shindig (and are quite excited about that as it allows our developers to > > focus on individual gadgets rather than either the portal environment or > > inadvertent multiple-gadget interaction across the global JavaScript > space. > > The containment alone is worth the cost of entry. > > > > That said I still hope to see a stable trunk that we can use for what > > would be a large part of our enterprise weather delivery. We simply can't > > use a hobbyist-level software package for that. I am perhaps rather > > old-school in not quite grokking the importance of GitHub, but I can > accept > > yours and some of my co-workers opinions on its viability and rising > > importance in the dev world. > > > > We would largely be interested mostly in the Gadget containment and > > rendering facilities, as we have yet to use the OpenSocial features, nor > do > > we see a requirement for them in our aviation- and industry-focused > > products. So splitting the project would (to me) not be an issue. But I > can > > understand that some might fear that such a split might endanger the > > viability of the overall package. > > > > We look forward to a successful migration of the active project to a new > > home, if that should come to pass. At this point I cannot unfortunately > > commit to providing code or support as our project is currently on hold. > > But having Shindig resurface on GitHub would be almost a requirement for > it > > to be funded at this point. I assume that all the other 'lurkers' out > there > > who are using Shindig may be in a similar predicament. > > > > All the best, > > > > Ichiro > > > > On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 12:44 AM, Chris Spiliotopoulos < > > chrysanthos.spiliotopou...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > having listened carefully to all the voices from the community so far, > > > I have come down to the following conclusion. > > > > > > There are many professionals among us that have been working in the > > > shadows supporting this project in diverse ways - evangelizing, > > > advocating, integrating, etc. without the 'shoulders' of a bold-named > > > company like Google or IBM (who has been the active maintainer of this > > > project for a number of years now). > > > > > > My gut feeling so far has told me that - as has already happened with > > > many other technologies - these companies usually invest an amount of > > > time and money for experimenting with different types of technologies > > > and if things don't go as planned in the long run, what seems to be > > > happening is that some other company takes over on the experiment and > > > so on, until no big name is really interested any more. > > > > > > During this lifecycle, many other companies are starting to adopt the > > > technologies and they are indeed putting them into good use to serve > > > their purposes. And this is exactly where we stand at the moment. I > > > can totally understand the feelings coming from Ichiro and Darren and > > > at the same time I get Ryan's point of view. So how do we handle this > > > situation? Speaking for myself, as I come from Greece and I have to > > > live and work in a country that is in crisis mode for quite a few > > > years now, all I can say is that a crisis can be the mother of > invention > > and change for a better tomorrow. > > > And this is exactly how I see this situation - in a metaphorical way > > > of course :) > > > > > > I think that now is the right time to make a change. Things have > > > changed in our industry during the last 10 years and so have trends > > > and communities. Maybe 10 years ago, the Apache Foundation was the > > > place to be but now this is definitely not the case - of course this > > > doesn't mean that the foundation is not the birthplace of great > > > technologies. But all the action now is over at GitHub. > > > > > > So, since Ryan gave us the green light (from the foundation's > > > perspective) that the project can be migrated, I'm outlining my > > proposals: > > > > > > - We break down the Shindig project into a number of distinct parts > - > > > personally I've never used the OpenSocial features and have no > > > interest in > > > them since I'm heavily focused on the gadget containment and > rendering > > > facilities. But there are people like Rene who have invested a lot > > > of time > > > and work on extending the OpenSocial features. > > > - We give it a brand new name - never liked the name Shindig in the > > > first place (speaking for myself once more). I think that this is > > very > > > important since we want to make a bold statement to communities > > > that this > > > technology is active, we're using it and others should try it out > > > because > > > it may solve them a number of problems. > > > - Create a modern web site on GitHub where we can all share our > > > experiences through show cases, usage examples and tutorials > > > - We start thinking around the concept of a gadget-centered > > marketplace > > > - in the context of show casing stuff. If I remember correctly > > Darren's > > > team has already launched a project which is very similar to the > > iGoogle > > > web site so he could certainly provide some ideas. > > > - Issues and feature requests can be handled directly though GitHub > > in a > > > more agile and community oriented approach without any of the > > > bureaucratic > > > processes imposed by the Apache Foundation. Once the 'monolith' is > > > broken > > > down into different projects then it would be more manageable and > > people > > > having certain skills could join forces > > > - By utilizing technologies like Docker there is no need for hosting > > > resources and sample material - we can bundle our examples, show > > > cases, etc > > > in self-sufficient Docker images and host them over @ DockerHub. > The > > > integration with GitHub is seamless so this is a no brainer > > > - Reach out to Atlassian, Jive and the rest of the companies who we > > know > > > for sure that they have invested a lot in this technology (and > > > actively use > > > it) to help with this effort - e.g. Atlassian has extended Shindig > > > container & engine to meet their requirements and they definitely > > > have devs > > > who know the bits and pieces > > > > > > So the question now for me is really simple. How many of us want to > > > move over to the next phase without getting into any sort of > > > credibility issues regarding our choices? +1 from me. > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 2:49 AM, Ryan Baxter <rbaxte...@apache.org> > > wrote: > > > > > > > I completely understand. I can't speak to the continued support of > > > vendors > > > > who have adopted Shindig, but I would imagine that they can't just > > > > stop supporting the products consuming Shindig. I am sorry that > > > > this puts you in a tough position but this is a natural cycle of open > > source software. > > > > With no community willing to support and enhance the project there > > > > is not much we can do. If someone takes the code and the project > > > > regains life somewhere else, that is great. > > > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 6:22 PM Ichiro Furusato < > > > ichiro.furus...@gmail.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Ryan, > > > > > > > > > > While the code is stable and available I can't go to our CIO and > > > > architects > > > > > and > > > > > advocate use of a project as the basis for our online delivery if > > > > > the project has folded. We were planning to replace literally five > > > > > separate legacy > > > > portals > > > > > (that > > > > > have been accumulating like mold rather than serve as > > > > > replacements) > > > using > > > > > Liferay, with our online widgets being replaced by Open Social > > Gadgets. > > > > > With > > > > > the demise of Shindig I assume Liferay's support of embedded > > > > > Shindig > > > will > > > > > likely disappear, and therefore my ability to advocate for its use. > > > > > > > > > > It's not the availability of the code, it's the living status of > > > > > the project. If the project is dead I can't very well suggest we > > > > > base millions of dollars > > > of > > > > > online > > > > > delivery over the next 5-10 years on it. As I am responsible for > > > > > that decision I could hardly be said to be responsible in > > > > > advocating for its use at > > > > this > > > > > stage. > > > > > > > > > > Sadly. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > Ichiro > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 3:01 AM, Ryan Baxter <rbaxte...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Ichiro, while the project will move to the attic, it doesn't > > > > > > mean you > > > > > can't > > > > > > continue to use it. If it is stable enough as it is right now > > > > > > for > > > you > > > > > than > > > > > > you should be able to continue to use it as is. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 5:59 AM Ichiro Furusato < > > > > > ichiro.furus...@gmail.com> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > To add just one more voice to the chorus, I'm likewise very > > > > > > > sad to > > > > hear > > > > > > of > > > > > > > the demise of what > > > > > > > seemed (until this notice) to be a functional and mature > project. > > > For > > > > > the > > > > > > > past nine months I have > > > > > > > advocated replacing the four (!) existing (legacy) aviation > > > > > > > and > > > > > industry > > > > > > > delivery platforms of the > > > > > > > Meteorological Service of New Zealand (MetService) with a > > > > > Liferay/Shindig > > > > > > > based site. Over the > > > > > > > past year we prototyped a replacement service and are > > > > > > > currently > > > > > awaiting > > > > > > > the next project > > > > > > > funding cycle. Having to go back to our executive management > > > > > > > team > > > and > > > > > > tell > > > > > > > them that the > > > > > > > basic architecture of our proposed service is somewhat > > > embarrassing, > > > > > and > > > > > > we > > > > > > > will likewise now > > > > > > > need to reevaluate and design a new solution. As the lead > > > > > > > designer > > > I > > > > > have > > > > > > > been quite happy > > > > > > > with the Shindig/Open Social Gadget technology, and we had > > > > > > > looked > > > > > forward > > > > > > > to a robust > > > > > > > implementation cycle, replacing fifteen years of crufty > > > > > > > service > > > with > > > > a > > > > > > > shiny new Gadget-based > > > > > > > solution. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sincere thanks to the development team for an excellent job, > > > > > > > very > > > > sorry > > > > > > to > > > > > > > hear about it being > > > > > > > put into the Attic. There may have been inactivity in the dev > > > > > > > side > > > at > > > > > > > Apache but we were actively > > > > > > > using, and planning to use it for a substantial part of our > > > > > > > online > > > > > > weather > > > > > > > delivery solution. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ichiro > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 7:31 AM, Ryan Baxter > > > > > > > <rbaxte...@apache.org> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi fellow Shindig Devs, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would like to let you all know that the Shindig PMC has > > > > > > > > voted > > > to > > > > > > > > terminate the Shindig project and move it to the attic. I > > > > > > > > have > > > > > already > > > > > > > > informed the Apache board about the termination in this > > > > > > > > months > > > > board > > > > > > > report > > > > > > > > (below). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As most of you have probably noticed we have seen a decline > > > > > > > > in participation in all aspects of the project over the past > > > > > > > > months > > > > and > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > downward trend has been happening for over a year now. This > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > certainly > > > > > > > > be seen in our reports to the board [1]. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If anyone has any questions please let me know, and I will > > > > > > > > be > > > sure > > > > to > > > > > > > keep > > > > > > > > everyone up to date as we transition the project to the > attic. > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Ryan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] > > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SHINDIG/Board+Reports > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > > > > > > > > From: Ryan Baxter <rbaxte...@apache.org> > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 9:29 PM > > > > > > > > Subject: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project > > > > > > > > To: bo...@apache.org <bo...@apache.org> > > > > > > > > Cc: priv...@shindig.apache.org <priv...@shindig.apache.org> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WHEREAS, the Project Management Committee of the Apache > > > > DirectMemory > > > > > > > > project has chosen by vote to recommend moving the project > > > > > > > > to the Attic; and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it no longer in the > > > > > > > > best interest of the Foundation to continue the Apache > > > > > > > > Shindig project due to inactivity; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig > > > > > > > > project is hereby terminated; and be it further > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RESOLVED, that the Attic PMC be and hereby is tasked with > > > > > > > > oversight over the software developed by the Apache Shindig > > > > > > > > Project; and be it further > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache > > > > > > > > Shindig" is hereby terminated; and be it further > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig PMC is hereby terminated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Chris Spiliotopoulos > > > > > > Solutions Architect | @LinkedIn > > > <https://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-spiliotopoulos>| @Twitter > > > <https://twitter.com/chefArchitect> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Chris Spiliotopoulos > > > > Solutions Architect | @LinkedIn > > <https://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-spiliotopoulos>| @Twitter > > <https://twitter.com/chefArchitect> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Chris Spiliotopoulos > > > > Solutions Architect | @LinkedIn > > <https://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-spiliotopoulos>| @Twitter > > <https://twitter.com/chefArchitect> > > > > > > > -- > Chris Spiliotopoulos > > Solutions Architect | @LinkedIn > <https://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-spiliotopoulos>| @Twitter > <https://twitter.com/chefArchitect> >
