On 23 March 2014 02:53, Sanjiva Weerawarana <[email protected]> wrote: > On Sun, Mar 23, 2014 at 4:59 AM, Noah Slater <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> My concern is that the PMC might be having some issues recognising >> non-WSO2 merit. Now, these may be completely unfounded. That's why I'm >> asking instead of concluding. > > Do you have any evidence of such un-Apache Way behavior to have these > concerns?
I believe I have adequately explained my single concern already. Namely that since November, we've only added two non-WSO2 committers. It's not that this is "un-Apache". It's more that I had hoped to see more, and I'm wondering if other members of the PMC believe that two new non-WSO2 committers adequately addresses the concerns that were brought up in November. As a reminder: "Taking next step and encouraging the active CoPDoC (taking from Forest link below) and recruitin non-WSO2 folks to PPMC will certainly make a big statement and make every one be more comfortable." Does the PMC feel that we have made sufficient progress with this, given the data? > Just being active on the list isn't enough to vote a committer in of course > .. they need to write code. Says who? I linked to this in November: https://forrest.apache.org/committed.html To whit, the Forrest community votes in as committer, anyone who displays merit contributing to: (Co)mmunity - one must interact with others, and share vision and knowledge (P)roject - a clear vision and consensus are needed (Do)cumentation - without it, the stuff remains only in the minds of the authors (C)ode - discussion goes nowhere without code Code is one out of four possible areas of contribution. Have we been overlooking the other three? > Have you done the research to see how many people have submitted > patches to earn commit rights in your view and have not been nominated? Nope. I'm just taking Afkham Azeez at his word when he says that there's been a substantial pick-up in activity. > IIRC you're a mentor and on the PMC too .. in that case why didn't you > nominate or bring this up in the PMC and *mentor* the community towards > that? This feels unnecessarily adversarial. Two points: 1) It's not my job to nominate people. The PMC should be learning how to do that. 2) I did bring it up, in November. And it seemed like we had agreement. Now the topic is up for discussion again, I am asking whether the community feels like it made sufficient progress. > Maybe a PMC discussion of those people will help you get more > comfortable - and maybe you guys can identify some more people to make into > committers. The PMC should take a look at the Forrest guide to committer election, and decide whether this is something that fits Stratos. > Why? Projects in the incubator are not ASF projects yet and a lot of people > don't like to depend on them (for example we in WSO2 review very carefully > if we are considering taking a dependency on an incubator project - and only > do it if there are no alternatives). I understand that. But one of the primary goals of incubation is to demonstrate that the project can attract interest from other people. Saying "we probably can but we need to be a TLP first" doesn't cut it, from my POV. > The WSO2 folks are people who have done that for a long time .. even when we > hire a new employee they have to earn commit rights and be voted in before > they're given committership. The bar is of course lower for incubator > projects as one is aggressively trying to build the community Can you make it any lower? Can you expand it so it doesn't just include people who code? I know somebody who grants a commit bit to his project to anyone who lands a single patch. He wants to make it as easy as possible to get started. Because he knows that recruitment is the biggest challenge any OSS project faces. Bigger than any technical challenge. > and if the > PMC is not doing that right the mentors should of course slap it around! > That's why the mentors are there ... to do that on an on-going basis in a > pro-active way. Sure, but the mentors aren't here to micromanage either. This topic was brought up in November, and now we're reviewing progress. -- Noah Slater https://twitter.com/nslater
