On Sun, Mar 23, 2014 at 8:00 AM, Noah Slater <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 23 March 2014 02:53, Sanjiva Weerawarana <[email protected]> wrote: > > On Sun, Mar 23, 2014 at 4:59 AM, Noah Slater <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> My concern is that the PMC might be having some issues recognising > >> non-WSO2 merit. Now, these may be completely unfounded. That's why I'm > >> asking instead of concluding. > > > > Do you have any evidence of such un-Apache Way behavior to have these > > concerns? > > I believe I have adequately explained my single concern already. > Namely that since November, we've only added two non-WSO2 committers. > Actually it is 3 with newest member. (just finalized the vote) > > It's not that this is "un-Apache". It's more that I had hoped to see > more, and I'm wondering if other members of the PMC believe that two > new non-WSO2 committers adequately addresses the concerns that were > brought up in November. > > As a reminder: > > "Taking next step and encouraging the active CoPDoC (taking from > Forest link below) and recruitin non-WSO2 folks to PPMC will certainly > make a big statement and make every one be more comfortable." > > Does the PMC feel that we have made sufficient progress with this, > given the data? > > > Just being active on the list isn't enough to vote a committer in of > course > > .. they need to write code. > > Says who? > > I linked to this in November: > > https://forrest.apache.org/committed.html > > To whit, the Forrest community votes in as committer, anyone who > displays merit contributing to: > > (Co)mmunity - one must interact with others, and share vision and knowledge > (P)roject - a clear vision and consensus are needed > (Do)cumentation - without it, the stuff remains only in the minds of the > authors > (C)ode - discussion goes nowhere without code > > Code is one out of four possible areas of contribution. Have we been > overlooking the other three? > > Yes, If you carefully go through the nomination, Jason Dally in not contributed single code, but PMC identified him early and voted for PMC. > > Have you done the research to see how many people have submitted > > patches to earn commit rights in your view and have not been nominated? > > Nope. I'm just taking Afkham Azeez at his word when he says that > there's been a substantial pick-up in activity. > > > IIRC you're a mentor and on the PMC too .. in that case why didn't you > > nominate or bring this up in the PMC and *mentor* the community towards > > that? > > This feels unnecessarily adversarial. > > Two points: > > 1) It's not my job to nominate people. The PMC should be learning how > to do that. > > 2) I did bring it up, in November. And it seemed like we had > agreement. Now the topic is up for discussion again, I am asking > whether the community feels like it made sufficient progress. > Yes, saying again, if you carefully monitored the nominations, you can see how early PMC identified (with only couple of productive mail discussions) potential new commiters. > > > Maybe a PMC discussion of those people will help you get more > > comfortable - and maybe you guys can identify some more people to make > into > > committers. > > The PMC should take a look at the Forrest guide to committer election, > and decide whether this is something that fits Stratos. > > > Why? Projects in the incubator are not ASF projects yet and a lot of > people > > don't like to depend on them (for example we in WSO2 review very > carefully > > if we are considering taking a dependency on an incubator project - and > only > > do it if there are no alternatives). > > I understand that. But one of the primary goals of incubation is to > demonstrate that the project can attract interest from other people. > Saying "we probably can but we need to be a TLP first" doesn't cut it, > from my POV. > > > The WSO2 folks are people who have done that for a long time .. even > when we > > hire a new employee they have to earn commit rights and be voted in > before > > they're given committership. The bar is of course lower for incubator > > projects as one is aggressively trying to build the community > > Can you make it any lower? Can you expand it so it doesn't just > include people who code? > We already demonstrated that. > > I know somebody who grants a commit bit to his project to anyone who > lands a single patch. He wants to make it as easy as possible to get > started. Because he knows that recruitment is the biggest challenge > any OSS project faces. Bigger than any technical challenge. > > > and if the > > PMC is not doing that right the mentors should of course slap it around! > > That's why the mentors are there ... to do that on an on-going basis in a > > pro-active way. > > Sure, but the mentors aren't here to micromanage either. This topic > was brought up in November, and now we're reviewing progress. > > -- > Noah Slater > https://twitter.com/nslater > -- Lakmal Warusawithana Software Architect; WSO2 Inc. Mobile : +94714289692 Blog : http://lakmalsview.blogspot.com/
