Thanks ! i've put some work for the website comparison pages on a draft PR https://github.com/apache/tomee-site-generator/pull/37 though I lack some info :
* TomEE works on both JDK and JRE, but can use more memory/cache in JDK. is this right ? Is JDK to be preferred ? * my TomEE 8.x is working on both JDK 11 and 17 with a small app. What features can be broken with wrong JDK/ASM version ? * TomEE implements MicroProfile 2.0 on branches 7.x, 8.x, 9.x ? or other MP versions ? the pages i made are not perfect for maintenance, but i have ideas to improve them, for example : maybe not include the "spec versions" columns on my "per-tomee-major" pages. that would help avoid mistakes when realising a new major like 10, 11... maybe drop the per-major idea and keep only the main comparison page ? maybe keep the main comparison page but add a new one to display the complete mapping between TomEE versions and Specs versions ? i'am not ready to automate their generation, i did not see if the Jakarta Spec Process does release specs numbers in a format like JSON, that would be easier to parse than HTML https://projects.eclipse.org/releases/jakarta-10 the TomEE visitors could rely on these eclipse pages to identify the Jakarta version they need before choosing a TomEE version. the text i wrote is to be changed too. Open to your suggestions :-) Swell On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 at 08:48, Zowalla, Richard < richard.zowa...@hs-heilbronn.de> wrote: > I agree with both of you :) > > It is a common question and is often asked on Stackoverflow: which > version of TomEE supports which JDK, which JEE Standard is covered with > which TomEE version, which TomEE version should be used in 2022, ... > > I am sure we can be more clear on the website. I am happy to discuss / > give my thoughts on anything, you provide via a PR, Swell! :) > > Every single contributions matters. > > Gruß > Richard > > > Am Donnerstag, dem 31.03.2022 um 14:33 -0700 schrieb David Blevins: > > > On Mar 31, 2022, at 2:01 PM, Swell <souheil.sul...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > It would be great to have per-major comparison pages. And in fact, > > > there are, but their rendering are broken. i have some free time to > > > work on it. here are the existing urls I thought using > > > > > > https://tomee.apache.org/tomee-8.0/docs/comparison.html > > > https://tomee.apache.org/tomee-9.0/docs/comparison.html > > > > I totally forgot we had those pages and it looks like I'm the one who > > put them there (and left them broken for 3 years): > > > > - > > > https://github.com/apache/tomee/commit/f779264f01c80e632649ff6dbe75f9b78bd359f0#diff-96bf7bb0a199a293ca950988b58249419c2a2cf667bf100750553c49671f9c63 > > > > Getting those pages updated in at least the 8 and 9 branch would be > > great! Here's where they live: > > > > - https://github.com/apache/tomee/blob/master/docs/comparison.adoc > > - > > https://github.com/apache/tomee/blob/tomee-8.x/docs/comparison.adoc > > > > > listing the required Java and Jakarta specs version could be nice > > > too, i cant take ideas from > > > https://tomcat.apache.org/whichversion.html > > > > That's exactly the page I was thinking of :) We have so many specs, > > I think we'd want to keep our table the way it is now with the spec > > names going up and down on the left rather than across the top, but > > we can definitely add the spec versions like they have. > > > > An interesting aspect of the Java versions is Tomcat has "11 and > > later", where we don't really have that luxury. We use the ASM > > library to do a lot of work and that library will actual fail if you > > throw it a new Java version it wasn't explicitly written to > > handle. So for a long time we could support Java 8, but not Java 11 > > for example. We only just added support for Java 17 in TomEE 8.0.8. > > > > I'm open to ideas on how we show that kind of thing. Maybe we need a > > table of the JDKs and "TomEE 8.0.8 and later" and similar written > > after each JDK version? > > > > > the main comparison page would have 2 synthesis table (flavors > > > comparison and versions comparison) > > > the per-major ones would have the detailed tables (specs, impls) > > > > Open to any thoughts. Feel free to hack something up. > > > > > I can put more thoughts on builds afterward :-) > > > > Sure! Welcome to the project btw! :) > > > > > > -David > > > > > On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 20:19, David Blevins < > > > david.blev...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Thank you, Swell, for helping to get those versions aligned! > > > > > > Some high-level thoughts: > > > > > > - Romain is right that we could potentially use the TomEE-Maven- > > > Plugin to build the various distributions. Swell also had some > > > ideas on simplifying how the distributions are built. We've also > > > had a couple threads about completely eliminating the war file > > > distributions. Now that the master branch is TomEE 9.0 and that is > > > not final yet, do we want to take the time to work on this? > > > > > > - I've long thought it was odd our TomEE MicroProfile distribution > > > was larger than the TomEE WebProfile distribution. For TomEE 10, > > > which will need to have a Jakarta EE 10 Core Profile > > > implementation, perhaps we could strip down the TomEE MicroProfile > > > distribution so it doubles as Jakarta EE Core Profile / > > > MicroProfile? (again not really for TomEE 9, but soon). > > > > > > - Implementations are different for the various branches. In > > > TomEE 8 we're using Apache BVal, but for TomEE 9 we're using > > > Hibernate Bean Validator because it supports the jakarta namespace > > > and is compliant. > > > > > > - Comparison page. Given each version has differences in things > > > it implements and the implementations used, do we want a > > > specialized version of the comparison.html page that we put in each > > > branches documentation? Since it would be dedicated to a specific > > > TomEE version, we could not just list the specification names, but > > > also the specification versions and link to the actual > > > specifications themselves. Thinking there could be URLs like these > > > > > > - https://tomee.apache.org/tomee-8.0/comparison.html > > > - https://tomee.apache.org/tomee-9.0/comparison.html > > > - https://tomee.apache.org/tomee-10.0/comparison.html (future) > > > > > > We could potentially also list the Java version required. > > > > > > The generic comparison.html page at > > > https://tomee.apache.org/comparison.html could either stay as a > > > high-level view, or simply forward to the latest stable version > > > (which would be TomEE 8 at the moment). We could also take a > > > different direction with the generic > > > https://tomee.apache.org/comparison.html page and have it be kind > > > of a marketing page with fancy graphics to talk about each > > > distribution at a high level. Sort of like the "TomEE Flavors" > > > section of our website main page (https://tomee.apache.org) but a > > > more complete page where there is kind of an image and description > > > of each distribution. People can then use the more detailed > > > comparison pages for the full list of 40+ specifications we > > > support. > > > > > > Thoughts? > > > > > > > > > -- > > > David Blevins > > > http://twitter.com/dblevins > > > http://www.tomitribe.com > > > > > > > On Mar 31, 2022, at 12:56 AM, Zowalla, Richard < > > > > richard.zowa...@hs-heilbronn.de> wrote: > > > > > > > > I went ahead and merged the changes by Swell. @Swell: Thank you!! > > > > Cherry picked them to master (9.x) as well. > > > > > > > > Now the distributions contain the libs specified on the website. > > > > > > > > Gruß > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > Am Montag, dem 28.03.2022 um 08:18 +0000 schrieb Zowalla, > > > > Richard: > > > > > As we merged the comparision page, we should now tackle: > > > > > https://github.com/apache/tomee/pull/828 > > > > > > > > > > There was a discussion regarding the original intentions of > > > > > plume. > > > > > If we agree, that "Those distributions are supposed to be the > > > > > same > > > > > minus the JPA and JSF providers.", then we should go a-head and > > > > > merge > > > > > it + port it to master. > > > > > > > > > > Gruß > > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Am Freitag, dem 25.03.2022 um 11:29 +0100 schrieb Swell: > > > > > > Thanks for your kind feedback. > > > > > > > > > > > > @Richard, I'll gladly change Tomee Plume pom to include > > > > > > BatchEE, PR > > > > > > : > > > > > > in > > > > > > progress with a blocker i can also resolve. > > > > > > > > > > > > @David, about the flavors page, i think your suggestions are > > > > > > simpler > > > > > > and > > > > > > better, applied them on names consistency and added a table > > > > > > of > > > > > > implementations. > > > > > > > > > > > > what need for this list of implementations ? > > > > > > * For my students => My usual scenario is that i need to > > > > > > remind > > > > > > them > > > > > > of > > > > > > what is provided by Tomee vs other servers. "they dont need > > > > > > HK2 nor > > > > > > Jersey > > > > > > if they have the Plus flavor." > > > > > > * For the general web site visitors => I wonder if people > > > > > > would > > > > > > prefer perf > > > > > > metrics and tck results, rather than comparing what is > > > > > > provided by > > > > > > Tomee vs > > > > > > others. provided a web capture just for fun : > > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/attachment/13041580/image-2022-03-25-11-18-14-708.png > > > > > > > > > > > > i still believe the list of implementations is needed to know > > > > > > what > > > > > > Tomee > > > > > > provides, but David's suggestion is clearer. > > > > > > here is the current version of the web page in the PR : > > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/attachment/13041581/image-2022-03-25-11-19-03-406.png > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 25 Mar 2022 at 06:18, Zowalla, Richard < > > > > > > richard.zowa...@hs-heilbronn.de> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for your mail and your work in making the page more > > > > > > > clear, > > > > > > > Swell! Your work is very much appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Total side note to the wider dev list, we really need to > > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > JBatch > > > > > > > > into Plume! Those distributions are supposed to be the > > > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > minus > > > > > > > > the JPA and JSF providers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I created TOMEE-3871 [1] for this one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Swell Let me know, if you like to provide a PR for master > > > > > > > / > > > > > > > tomee- > > > > > > > 8.x > > > > > > > branch to fix it. We can then assign you the Jira :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It basically boils down to adding "batchee-jbatch" > > > > > > > (runtime) to > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > "tomee-plume-webapp". The references in the "boms" are then > > > > > > > automatically re-generated, if you conduct a quick build: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mvn -U -Pquick -DskipTests -Dsurefire.useFile=false > > > > > > > -DdisableXmlReport=true -DuniqueVersion=false -ff > > > > > > > -Dassemble > > > > > > > -DfailIfNoTests=false clean install > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are unsure how to proceed with it, feel free to ask. > > > > > > > We > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > happy to help. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gruß > > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TOMEE-3871 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Am Donnerstag, dem 24.03.2022 um 11:48 -0700 schrieb David > > > > > > > Blevins: > > > > > > > > > On Mar 19, 2022, at 2:30 AM, Swell < > > > > > > > > > souheil.sul...@gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Tomee website : one web page mislead me to > > > > > > > > > believe > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > Tomee Plus > > > > > > > > > includes Tomee Plume, and it made it hard for me to > > > > > > > > > understand > > > > > > > > > why > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > webapp was not loading. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe it could mislead others and its why I wanted > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > suggest > > > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > > changes on its content to better show the delta between > > > > > > > > > flavors. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Currently the flavors page does not differentiate > > > > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > Micro > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > Web > > > > > > > > > profiles, nor does it tell Plume includes EclipseLink > > > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > Plus > > > > > > > > > does not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I took time to write a page I believe could be usefull > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > Tomee > > > > > > > > > users, a > > > > > > > > > screenshot is linked below, the visitors could benefit > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > additional > > > > > > > > > table for synthesis of deltas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/attachment/13041318/image-2022-03-18-20-36-25-938.png > > > > > > > > Hi Swell, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you so much for taking the time to put so much > > > > > > > > thought > > > > > > > > into > > > > > > > > this work. We are truly lucky :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I love that you included the MicroProfile detail, that > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > definitely > > > > > > > > missing and badly needed. As the table is quite large > > > > > > > > already, > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > terse summary at the top is a very nice improvement and > > > > > > > > likely > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > help people see the big picture significantly faster. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the first table, I like the way you used "Jakarta JSF > > > > > > > > Implementation" and list the implementations by > > > > > > > > name. For > > > > > > > > consistency, can we use that same approach for the line > > > > > > > > above? Instead of it saying "EclipseLink" and having a > > > > > > > > checkmark, > > > > > > > > could we also have it say "Jakarta Persistence (JPA) > > > > > > > > Implementation" > > > > > > > > and then put "OpenJPA, OpenJPA, EcliseLink, OpenJPA" in > > > > > > > > there? We > > > > > > > > can do that in both the top and bottom tables. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On listing OpenEJB in the bottom table. I think it's > > > > > > > > fine I'm > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > the best judge of what people think is useful information > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > I've > > > > > > > > been working on the project too long and everything is > > > > > > > > "obvious." Do > > > > > > > > you find it helpful to see OpenEJB listed even though > > > > > > > > it's the > > > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > for all distributions. Do you think we possibly need a > > > > > > > > table > > > > > > > > entirely dedicated to implementations? (OpenWebBeans, > > > > > > > > Geronimo > > > > > > > > Transaction Manager, BVal, etc) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some minor trademark corrections: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - "GlassFish Mojarra" is "Eclipse Mojarra" > > > > > > > > - "Jakarta JSF" is "Jakarta Faces", but "Jakarta Faces > > > > > > > > (JSF)" > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > completely fine and encouraged so people are aware of its > > > > > > > > new > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > former name. > > > > > > > > - "Jakarta EJB" is "Jakarta Enterprise Beans", but > > > > > > > > "Jakarta > > > > > > > > Enterprise Beans (EJB)" is completely fine and encouraged > > > > > > > > so > > > > > > > > people > > > > > > > > are aware of its new and former name. > > > > > > > > - "Jakarta JPA" is "Jakarta Persistence", but "Jakarta > > > > > > > > Persistence > > > > > > > > (JPA)" is completely fine and encouraged so people are > > > > > > > > aware of > > > > > > > > its > > > > > > > > new and former name. > > > > > > > > - OpenJPA, OpenEJB and MyFaces are all Apache trademarks, > > > > > > > > so > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > we're going to say "Apache MyFaces" on the page, we need > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > use > > > > > > > > "Apache OpenJPA" and "Apache OpenEJB" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Total side note to the wider dev list, we really need to > > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > JBatch > > > > > > > > into Plume! Those distributions are supposed to be the > > > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > minus > > > > > > > > the JPA and JSF providers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you so much, again, for all work on this and being > > > > > > > > patient > > > > > > > > getting bounced around between different repos and > > > > > > > > ultimately > > > > > > > > onto > > > > > > > > the list. We'd be happy to see you post as often as you > > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -David > > > > > > > > >
