thx for the reply. i think perhaps i could have expounded a bit to avoid some misunderstanding, but i think we generally agree esp on the big important points re: vision and direction.
erland;584009 Wrote: > I think the audio market is big but you have to focus on it, something > that Logitech really hasn't done during the last years. I can mention a > lot of technical features added to the Squeezebox during the last years > but I have a hard time to finding a lot of features that greatly > improves the music discovery and listening experience. imo, logitech should have three main pieces of hardware: 1. a player 2. a server 3. a combo of the two they can come in different varieties, (boom, touch, duet and so on) BUT the *base unit* for each should have no expensive displays or remotes or any of that, just the box. it should be possible to do each of the three for $100 or less in a "base unit" config. apple TV is just $99. this would monitize the server for units 2/3. fancy remotes? fancy touchscreen units? those can be available, and can cost more, but shouldn't be necessary!!! now, in addition to that, they should have taken SP, which was already well developed and existing, and ported it, to be SOLD, on iOS, android, whathave you. Pippin sells his, but logitech can't? that would have made SP worth it, b/c people would pay to keep getting it developed, (SP would have been properly monitized). and finally, the units 1 and 3 should ALWAYS have had the ability to do video, and all 3 do DLNA, in addition to the slimproto. people don't necessarily want a TV on to LISTEN, but a lot of people do want the OPTION to be able to operate the device visually VIA a TV, AND they want ONE DEVICE, not several, to handle all the A/V. the resistance to that common sense POV in this forum i think will be a major factor in the ultimate demise of these devices. most people are happy with terrible yet USABLE media adapters, like a tivo or those wifi products out there to play A/V. the idea that this geeky, expensive, complex audio ONLY player hardware ONLY devices can thrive is ludicrous. erland;584009 Wrote: > Most (but maybe not all) stationary video products out there are > primarily focused on video and they are primarily focused on displaying > the the video on a TV. I believe there are a lot of people out there > that don't want their TV turned on just because they want to listen to > music. sure, but thats only one way of how they look at these solutions. they DO want a device that CAN work with the TV, (but not NEED to, as you said). they also want a device that can do BOTH audio and video. i would love to use ipeng to control a SB, but also turn on the TV and see SBS stuff on it, visualizations, art, etc... i can imagine listening to the radio guys do nfl games while i watch the game, and switch to AV2 on the TV to make SB adjustments, that kind of thing. erland;584009 Wrote: > However, I also believe there are a lot of people that would love > graphical visualizers and music videos to be displayed on the TV when > it's on, but the device has to work and it has to work really good also > with the TV off.> > > > > > > exactly. and it already works well without a TV, so thats covered. > > we're talking about just adding video capabilitiy, both content and > > operational. > > > > > > erland;584009 Wrote: > > > Completely correct and from what I've seen of the Revue it unfortunately > > > seems to continue in the same geeky direction.> > > > > > > > thats too bad. i don't know much about it, but it already has a > > leg up on SB stuff if it can do A/V which it sounds like it can. > > > > > > erland;584009 Wrote: > > > 1. They don't make any money on the SP software,> > > > > > > > and thats EXACTLY why they should port it to devices where they > > COULD make money off of it, just like pippin does. why cede that > > market to pippin? even if they don't port SP, why didn't they have > > an app of their own for these devices? it was shortsighted and bad > > business not to do SOMETHING. > > > > > > erland;584009 Wrote: > > > porting SP to iOS would make people buy Apple hardware instead of > > > Logitech hardware.> > > > > > > > i totally reject this. people aren't buying the SBC for good > > reason, it costs too much and does too little! but forget that, no > > one had an iphone or ipod b/c someone, in this case pippin, > > eventually made a SBS remote app for it. and even more to the > > point, logitech didn't do it, so now pippin (and others) get the > > reward for having done so! logitech gets nothing! > > > > this slim stuff isn't a competitor for ipods and iphones. come > > on. > > > > your argument would be like microsoft saying they won't make Office > > for Mac b/c that promotes people to buy Macs. they rejected that > > line of thinking, and for good reason. > > > > > > erland;584009 Wrote: > > > The main reasons they sell any SBC's at all is that some people hate > > > Apple and some people want the Duet and get the SBC in the package or > > > need it for initial setup.> > > > > > > > agreed. but is that where the market is? should logitech not > > offer BOTH options? what is the point of restricting your sales to > > ONLY apple haters? and if you do that, if thats your philosophy, > > why integrate with itunes? > > > > > > erland;584009 Wrote: > > > 2. SP ported to iOS by Logitech would suck if you compare it to iPeng. > > > I'm sorry to say this but I really believe currently Logitech doesn't > > > have the graphical/user interface designers to compete with iPeng, so I > > > think it's the right choice to not try at all. They should instead focus > > > on advertising the available third party solutions since they will also > > > make Logitech sell more hardware.> > > > > > > > sorry, but as an american, that offends my way of thinking. thats > > pure fatalism. in america, we don't normally cede ANYTHING to our > > competitors. we fight. we may not win, but we try. > > > > the idea that logitech could not have say, HIRED PIPPIN! ...or > > someone like him to do what he has done, is nonsense! logitech > > could have owned the SBS remote app marketplace if they were > > prepared. > > > > but i do agree logitech has been a HUGE bust for slim, and i was > > 100% wrong about it being good for the company. its sad (and > > unamerican) if logitech agrees with you though. > > > > i think you contradict yourself here too... before you say they > > shouldn't have an apple app b/c that sells apple stuff, yet now you > > say, correctly imo, that those apps do sell players. which is it? > > > > > > erland;584009 Wrote: > > > 3. There is no way Logitech can compete with Apple hardware, the only > > > area they could compete in is price and SBC is currently more expensive > > > than a iPod Touch.> > > > > > > > i agree... the SBC is shockingly overpriced. but here is what i > > am saying... > > > > imo, the SBC should remain an expensive niche product for apple > > haters, but logitech should just assume, and brand its own, SBS > > remote apps for ALL the devices out there now, as the MAIN way MOST > > users will remote their SBS gear, b/c it is obviously the de facto > > standard. > > > > > > erland;584009 Wrote: > > > A cheap combo server is doomed, this is what we got with the Touch.> > > > > > > > > > > i say take the touch, and redo it WITHOUT a display, and put the > > money towards parts that could run the full SBS and MORE, like a > > DLNA video server, and suddenly you have a viable server product. > > > > > > erland;584009 Wrote: > > > A more expensive combo server would be better but it would also get more > > > expensive and due to this be out of range for the mass market.> > > > > > > > i don't think it would get too expensive, and depending what it did > > and if you took dopey displays and remotes out of it you could > > really have something. > > > > > > erland;584009 Wrote: > > > A standalone server would make sense, could probably be made for $99 and > > > maybe even less and still have the necessary power to run SBS with > > > decent performance. For example a repackaged Sheevaplug with > > > preinstalled SBS and a Logitech logo on the front.> > > > > > > > i've been singing that song for a long time. combine it with a > > SBRec (of the duet) and u have an idea of my all in one combo box. > > > > > > erland;584009 Wrote: > > > To make cheap standalone combo devices that supports locally stored > > > music we need a modified architecture. Basically remove all advanced > > > features that is unique to the Squeezebox which requires a central > > > server and instead focus on simple browsing like other similar UPnP > > > players.> > > > > > > > a small combo box could work with local music in two ways. either > > attach music to it via usb, and then have it share that on the > > network, which could be easily setup in a custom linux build, > > (think router type interface to config). OR tell the combo box > > where the music is on the network, and map a path for it. > > > > a combo box also instantly solves all the networking problems > > between server and player, and even allows for the customer to opt > > in to a web service by logitech where they can manage and upgrade > > your box silently without you even knowing it, b/c the environment > > would totally be theirs and self contained. (think ps3 fw > > upgrades) > > > > > > erland;584009 Wrote: > > > It wouldn't surprise me if Logitech moved in this direction even if I > > > personally don't like it. I want something that improves the music > > > discovery/listening experience not a simple player that just lets me > > > play a song. If I wanted a simple player I can just put my iPod Touch > > > or iPhone in a docking station which gives me a simple (and also > > > portable) player. By the way, I'm sure a Revue will do great as a > > > simple player that just plays a song, it's just a bit expensive if you > > > don't need the TV part and it's not available in Europe.> > > > > > > > i agree on this, but you could still have a full SBS, so in that > > case, your problem is with SBS not the hardware. -- MrSinatra www.lion-radio.org using: sb2 & sbc (my home) / sbrec & ipeng (parent's home) - sbs 7.5.2b - win xp pro sp3 ie8 - p4(ht) 3.2ghz, 2gig ram - 1tb wd usb2 raid1 - d-link dir-655 - 45k+ mp3 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MrSinatra's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2336 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82366 _______________________________________________ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
