When an organization has purchase orders, invoices, catalogs, ASNs, etc. flowing between itself and its major customers or suppliers one must think "mission critical" information exchanges. If these are outsourced the organization has just given up control over its revenue stream.
"Mission critical" processes should never be outsourced in my opinion. Rachel Foerster From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Allen Garrett Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 11:57 AM To: 'Earl Wertheimer'; 'Steve'; [email protected] Subject: RE: [SPAM]RE: [EDI-L] Re: Software and installation instructions? I would concur with Earl. In most cases, especially with medium to large organizations, outsourcing has a huge downside. I consulted to assist a major manufacturing company to migrate its EDI middleware (from a Big 3 EDI package to another Big 3 EDI package) and the IT/network/DBA staff was outsourced. It took three times as long to perform a task because the groups wouldn't work together. They each had differing agendas. I've seen a number of organizations get into this trap when a new IT VP/CFO VP comes into an organization and wants to make his/her mark thinking that they can cut corporate payroll by outsourcing the IT staff. In each instance, it has cost the organization much more because they have no control over their data, hardware, software or personnel who support their information. Outsourcing has become a black hole for many organizations. Small businesses can certainly benefit from outsourcing because they can't afford to pay internal professional IT staff and the project list/support needs can't justify the position(s). I was assuming that "Steve" is a 3rd party host agent, so his statement is obvious. I can almost guarantee that his concern for the client business isn't equivalent to a corporate employee; or his commitment to the bottom line of his client. As long as he gets paid everything is "hunky-dory", but if the check doesn't show-up on time; see what you get. Your data and you are now held hostage. The same goes for when something goes wrong. Everybody wants to point fingers. It is more inconvenient to work with external resources than to support internal IT personnel. I've worked from both positions and I'll be the first to tell you that if you can support an IT staff then it will save you more headaches and money in the end. Having personnel with a vested interest in an organization is a more secure position than trusting that someone external has your best interest in mind, specially, if that external resource is supporting dozens of other organizations. Think disaster recovery if something happens to the external host and that host has dozens of clients using dozens of different applications. Who gets restored first? Where do you fit in the daily issue queue? Do you work with the same staff on a consistent basis? Does the support staff understand your business or your business needs? Do they understand the data? Do they work well with other outsourcing agents or software/hardware vendors? Let's face it, whoever you choose to outsource to, do they have the right personnel to support all of your applications. So that means that the 3rd party provider has to work with the software vendor or vice versa. What criteria does the outsource agent use to hire qualified personnel? This is your data and your business so there needs to be accountability to your organization. As you can see, it isn't as simple as it may seem. There are too many opportunities for something to drop through the cracks. In the end, you must consider your exposure. This includes financial and legally. If you outsource, you'll be spending the money you saved on IT staff to pay corporate attorneys. Nice try Steve!!! _____ From: [email protected] <mailto:EDI-L%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:[email protected] <mailto:EDI-L%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Earl Wertheimer Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 12:20 PM To: Steve; [email protected] <mailto:EDI-L%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [SPAM]RE: [EDI-L] Re: Software and installation instructions? Steve Because: 1) We don't want to depend on a 3rd party to host the information. 2) We don't want to rely on the internet to have access to our own data. 3) It's confidential and we don't trust a 3rd party. 4) We want to manipulate the data ourselves. 5) We don't want to keep paying a 3rd party to host and handle our stuff. I'm sure others can think of more reasons. To: "'Laurie Englehart'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:gardedi%40yahoo.com> com>, <EDI- [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:L%40yahoogroups.com> com> From: "Steve" <steve.montgomery@ <mailto:steve.montgomery%40ecediltd.com> ecediltd.com> Date sent: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 12:13:34 -0400 Subject: RE: [EDI-L] Re: Software and installation instructions? > The real question is WHY is anyone still installing EDI software? > > > > _____ > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:EDI-L%40yahoogroups.com> com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:EDI-L%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf Of > Laurie Englehart > Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 11:54 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:EDI-L%40yahoogroups.com> com > Subject: [EDI-L] Re: Software and installation instructions? > > > > > Company was 1EDISource > Software was their 852 Reporting Tool > > I was a little surprised myself when I discovered that the software > did not come with installation instructions. If I knew how to post a > screen shot here, I would provide a screen of what I am able to see. > > I do have to give the support lady credit, she did provide for me the > help file but that did not contain any installation information. > > To me, it looks like the disk that I received is not the most current > version of the software. The "newest" date on the files contained on > the disk is 4/15/2003 > > The setup.stf file has this: > App Name 852 Reporting > App Version 2002-07-29 15:00:43 > Frame Caption 852 Reporting Setup > Dialog Caption Base 852 Reporting > Usage String Usage: Setup > About Box String Copyright, 1 EDI Source, Inc., 2000, All > Rights Reserved\n\nThis installation was created using the Visual > FoxPro Setup Wizard. > > And a README.TXT buried within a folder has this: > 852 Reporting Build 1.1.5 for Windows 98/NT/2000/Me > Read Me 11/08/2002 > Copyright (c) 2000-2001, 1 EDI Source, Inc. All rights reserved. > > This patch updates 852 Reporting version 1.1.X to version 1.1.5. > > ****note the lack of Windows XP and the date is 6 years old.***** > > I was also told prior to purchase that this software would provide > for us 9 unique reports. The reports listed on the disk total 6. When > I had installed the software how I thought it should be done, I was > able to retrieve only 4 unique reports and 2 that were duplicates. > > The setup.inf only lists 6 reports... > > I requested from the sales rep multiple times what the current > version number is supposed to be to make sure that I received what I > was supposed to but I keep getting the same answer, that I had > refused to purchase support hours and they can't help me unless I pay. > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:EDI-L%40yahoogroups.com> com, Dave Records > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Laurie, It would be very beneficial to all of us on this list if > we > > knew what the software was. I've never encountered that type of > > situation in 10 years of EDI consulting. > > > > Dave Records > > > > > > > > Records Consulting, LLC > > Grand Rapids, MI > > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 20, 2008, at 8:19 AM, Laurie Englehart wrote: > > > > > I have come across an unusual situation, at least it is a > situation > > > that I have not come across in the past 10 years of doing this EDI > > > thing. > > > > > > I purchased a certain software and upon receiving the software, > the > > > installation instructions for this software was not included. It > did > > > include a LOT of advertising for their other offerings, but > nothing > > > on the installation of the product. I thought this was quite odd > > > since even extrememly simple programs include some kind of > > > installation instructions. > > > I contacted the sales rep on many occasions asking to receive the > > > installation instructions. When that was refused, I asked the rep > to > > > verify what the current version of this software was supposed to > be > > > so that I could verify that I have received the current version. > That > > > also has been refused. > > > > > > This is what I have been offered, I can purchase 10 hours of > support > > > so that they can install it for me (what happens when I have > system > > > failure as I did just recently and had to replace my HDD??) or I > can > > > receive a refund for the purchase. I am obviously going to > request a > > > refund, the software is useless to me without being able to > install > > > it. > > > > > > Has anyone else come across a company that will not provide > software > > > version or installation instructions without paying $2,000 in > > > unneeded support? Or have I just been spoiled by Sterling > Commerce, > > > Inovis, etc that they actually provide installation instructions > as > > > well as the software version that you have received? > > > > > > Thanks!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > ... > Please use the following Message Identifiers as your subject prefix: <SALES>, <JOBS>, <LIST>, <TECH>, <MISC>, <EVENT>, <OFF-TOPIC> > > Job postings are welcome, but for job postings or requests for work: <JOBS> IS REQUIRED in the subject line as a prefix.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3371 (20080820) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset. <http://www.eset.com> com > > Earl Wertheimer [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:earlw%40spe-edi.com> com http://www.spe- <http://www.spe-edi.com> edi.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ ... Please use the following Message Identifiers as your subject prefix: <SALES>, <JOBS>, <LIST>, <TECH>, <MISC>, <EVENT>, <OFF-TOPIC> Job postings are welcome, but for job postings or requests for work: <JOBS> IS REQUIRED in the subject line as a prefix.Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EDI-L/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EDI-L/join (Yahoo! 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