I'm sorry, Steve...
But; with an initial volley of, "The real question is WHY is anyone
still installing EDI software?" you can see how some of us might be
having trouble reconciling the later "individual decisions based on
goals, needs and character" position.
Thanks,
Martin Morrison
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Steve
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 10:05 AM
To: 'Craig Dunham'; [email protected]
Subject: RE: [EDI-L] Re: [OFF TOPIC] - the "In-house vs Hosted"
debate - was software install
Hmmm - Please re-read my posts as I think you and I agree at the
very heart
of this matter and that is it is a decision that must be made
individually
and as it relates to the needs, goals and character of each
business. I
simply objected to the immediate castigation of "Managed EDI
Services" as a
viable choice, that you will get inferior service and to the
perpetuation of
lies. The fact is, trust me when I say this, I am not trying to
sell you,
but I do manage over 80 customers who today have better service,
more
reliability and a higher degree of technical capability than
they had
previous to us providing Managed EDI Services and it might be
surprising to
note that the vast majority of them were not struggling with
EDI.
But lets move on shall we.
Thanks,
Steve
_____
From: [email protected] <mailto:EDI-L%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:[email protected] <mailto:EDI-L%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of
Craig Dunham
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 6:53 PM
To: [email protected] <mailto:EDI-L%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [EDI-L] Re: [OFF TOPIC] - the "In-house vs Hosted"
debate - was
software install
Hmmm... "Hmmm" indeed, Art.
First off - I'm the EDI Coordinator for a fairly large (over 400
locations) retailer with sales in excess of $900-million per
year.
And I'm more than just the EDI Coordinator - I'm the "EDI
Department" - I do it all - mapping, creating specs, managing
data
flow, managing trading partners, doing some 'in-house' testing,
working with our testing program to get new vendors tested and
so on
and so forth.
I also manage, support and administer other programs and
applications and data on top of the EDI gig... This includes a
sales reporting system (internal), a POS reporting system
(external)
and fixing SKU and UPC errors and working with the Store Support
group and the AS400 support group on pricing and SKU and UPC
errors
and issues.
Hmmm.... a lot, I know.
Sure, we could outsource our EDI... but why? Would it save us
money on a monthly basis? Probably. But then what happens when
there IS a problem...? And how would we get the data from our
system into the EDI program for sending POs...? Oh, through some
kind of interface... that somebody has to program, pay for,
monitor,
adminster and keep up... Hmmm....
So many people - and I'm surely not pointing fingers - focus
SOLELY
on the concept of PRICE. I get calls and e-mails and other
solicitations from ths network, that network and this other
provider
over there, telling Me that they can save Me "50% on your VAN
costs!"... Frankly, it's a bunch of BS and sales hype. I already
get a pretty damn good rate on My VAN bill - well under a dime
per
KC. And the overage is even less...
Could you beat My VAN costs...? Sure, but at what cost...? What
about My concerns about "downtime"...? What about support
issues?
What about... Well, there are a ton of questions....
And, I get to have it work seemlessly with My EDI software -
which
come from the same VAN... And when I have a problem, I don't
call
software support and get told it's a network issue and don't
call
network support and get told it's a software issue. It's all ONE
company, and they can figure it out on their side.
And trust Me, I'm that squeeky wheel getting greased... I've got
no
problems going up the food-chain if I don't get a satisfactory
reply
from support...
And yes, I use one one of the "big 3" providers....
Does "managed EDI" have a place...? Sure..! Is it valuable to
more
than just small scale companies? Sure! But is it a fit-all and
be-
all and end-all solution for EVERYBODY..?? No freakin' way,
Jose!
There are far too many complexities to be considered....
NOTHING about EDI is a perfect solution for ANYBODY... There are
always going to be issues and complexities and nuances and
variations that can and WILL occur between customer A and
customer B
and the next.
I deal with a lot of small mom-n-pop vendors/suppliers and work
with
a lot of the big boys (not just 800lb gorillas, but 1800lb
gorillas
and bigger!) and work with My VAN/network and talk to other
networks
and VANS and service providers and 3rd party hosters and all the
rest....
So Steve (at ECEDILTD) and Allen (at wherever) and Art (at
Blackwater) and Earl (at wherever) and all the rest - relax...!
It's a big pond out there and lots of fishes to feed upon...
Steve - your solution may not and probably will not work for
everybody...
Allen - Steve's solution may just work for you - who knows...?
Finally, Steve, I must call into question your statement
"However,
like any other aspect of a company a decision must be made at
some
point when it makes sense to discontinue doing things that are
unrelated to what the organization is in business for."
So does this mean because I work for a retailer, they
should "discontinue doing things unrelated to" retail? So we
should
outsource our EDI - hell, our entire MIS department - including
the
network guys that support the users - we should get rid of our
Store
Support group because they're "unrelated" to our business....
our
accounting departments should be outsourced because, well, they
just
pay bills - they don't sell anything... our advertising
department -
well, no, it can be argued that by creating ads, they sell
things -
oh, but wait, advertising is unrelated to our core business...
That's why so many people took offense to your query that
started
the whole thing - about "The real question is WHY is anyone
still
installing EDI software?"...
Simple answer? Because it fills a need they have....
Oh, and to all? Go back and look at a comment Laurie made - it's
not an EDI application she's installing but a REPORTING
APPLICATION
for her EDI system - "Software was their 852 Reporting Tool"
Craig Dunham
EDI Coordinator
PS - Steve - one other thing - just because your product is
being
used by "several fortune 500 companies" doesn't mean it will
benefit
all of those Fortune 500 companies...
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:EDI-L%40yahoogroups.com> com,
"Art
Douglas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Let me throw my hat into the ring on this discussion.
>
> I also have seen both sides of this coin. Some of you remember
that I was
> the EDI Guy at a company formerly known as PaperPak. They
restructured,
> outsourced IT and EDI. Now their EDI is being run by an
excellent
managed
> services organization. Some comments I have heard from my
former
colleagues
> who still work for the remnant of that company include
observations that
> everything costs extra. If they want to add a trading partner,
there is a
> charge. If they need a new report, there is a charge. What
they
don't
> understand is that I wasn't free working there - the company
was
shelling
> out a bundle, and the nickels and dimes they find themselves
paying don't
> add up to what my salary and benefits cost the corporation.
So,
there is
> big savings.
>
> On the other hand, the outsourcing company isn't sitting in on
the
user
> meetings. They don't hear the day-to-day problems that every
business has,
> and cannot interject ideas for using EDI or other IT
capabilities
for
> solving these problems. When you cut your IT staff, you lose
much
more than
> technical expertise. You lose a huge investment in business
understanding.
> I think that is the biggest loss when IT or EDI is outsourced.
A
good EDI
> person has dealt with multiple facets of their employer's
business: AP, AR,
> supply, shipping, receiving, sales, marketing, planning and
IT, to
mention a
> few. The managed services guys deal with AP, when they need a
check. It
> means that IT is no longer a strategic advantage, because the
brain trust
> that comes along with an in-house IT staff is gone. You get
what
is in the
> box, nothing more. And if you don't really understand how to
use
what is in
> the box, you don't even get that.
>
> I'm guessing that, when all those guys Steve mentioned decided
to
go to
> managed services, they retained key staff assets who knew EDI
and
the
> business. But the average Fortune 50,000 company doesn't have
six
guys
> doing mapping, another doing translating, and a cadre of
business
analysts,
> systems analysts and IT staff. It's all one or two people, and
if
you think
> that coding or mapping or setups is what they do, and you can
get
that done
> outside, you may be missing the boat.
>
> Now I am back to being a consultant. I clean up the mess
others
leave
> behind. I find I am most effective when I am on-site
regularly,
and begin
> to learn the nuances of how the firm does business. Kind of
like
an
> employee - but more expensive.
>
> Hmmm.
>
> Art Douglas
> Lead Consultant
> Blackwater Network
> (877) 464-8915
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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