On Saturday 11 February 2006 08:25, Sophie Gautier wrote: > Hi Graham, > > Sorry, Short answer because this thread is taking to much time for me > now.
> > >>> If you have sources of information, let's discuss them and how we > >>> might make them available. We don't need to fork the project to > >>> do that. > >> > >> This is not a fork, as you will see it's another project that is > >> not grown for marketing OOo. > > > > I must admit it sounds like it to me. But if you'll excuse my > > presumption, it seems to me you're going about it the wrong way. I > > like the idea of having an Education Project separate from > > marketing. But as we have noted in the past Marketing in the > > Education field is a different ballgame to marketing to the > > corporate market. Marketing to schools should actually be a > > sub-project of an Education Project because pedagogical criteria > > are always going to influence that marketing effort. > > So let have the marketing/education project that make much more sense > than having it in education project and it already exist. So nobody > will be hurt by my proposal, and I won't destroy anything. No, in actual fact you would. If "your" Education Project got off the ground then it would relegate the present one to obscurity attached to the back end of the marketing Project as it is. It's hard enough to find right now, nobody would bother looking further than one that had "project" status. Thats why marketing to the education Sector needs to be in an Education Project if there is going to be such an animal. > >> [...] > >> > >>> Ok so file some issues on this and cc them to this list, me or > >>> whatever. Again I can't see why the method of communication is > >>> relevant to the central issue of why we need 2 projects. > >> > >> An issue won't be enough, this is why I request a project to > >> handle all the tasks. And again, reading the archives of the list, > >> I would be off topic. > > > > That's your opinion which I think is not the actuality. The Edu > > list is for discussing anything related to OOo and education. > > Why it doesn't happen so ? Because you don't need it, as Ian. This is > not in the interest of this list, that's all. Otherwise, there will > be at least some material in the Doc&Files part of the site, you > don't need access right here. Well there you are, I didn't know that either. > > >>> No problem, and if we get wiki pages going we can easily make > >>> such links. As Alexandro said, I had a problem with maintaining > >>> the main site. If you want to put these links on the education > >>> pages of the main site please do, you have the access rights so > >>> just do it. If you think I'm not doing something I should be tell > >>> me and I'll try and put it right. > >> > >> I don't have the access rights to marketing, I'm not a marketing > >> developer. [...] > > > > I thought the idea was to take it out from under marketing. Do you > > have access rights on the main site. (By which I mean > > www.openoffice.org rather than marketing.openoffice.org) If so then > > lets do it. > > No I don't have access right to the main site and to marketing. I'm > not a developer from marketing or main site. > > >>> But as a matter of courtesy I think an existing project lead > >>> should be informed before such a proposal. What if out of the > >>> blue I proposed a new XXXX project that already existed? How > >>> would that project lead feel? > >> > >> Sorry, but I can't see any existing education project by now. I > >> know that you're working hard on OOo distribution and adoption for > >> schools and governments. But as already written several time, this > >> is not the topic of the project, this is the same difference that > >> exist between marketing and development. > > > > It seems to me that everything you've told us about your proposal > > so far fits very well into the project as it is. I quote from the > > Project front page: > > "We welcome you into a community where teachers and students can > > learn about the new software development models of the 21st Century > > and support each other by *sharing free resources and ideas.* The > > best way to learn is to take part! (My emphasis) > > Yes, so the project is here since 2003, where are the resources ? Can > you point me to the messages or the material ? Have you added any? Have you posted on the list saying "I have these resources available"? Have you offered to set these things up or even to help in the Education project/pages/doc-files area? Have you posted suggesting that the project needs more Pedgogical material. The answer is no! You've done none of that. And you can't say it would be off topic because this conversation proves otherwise. > > >> [...] > >> > >>> So let's do it through the existing project and if necessary move > >>> it to its own pages outside the marketing umbrella. The issue is > >>> not who leads it but whether its good to have two projects. Best > >>> to have one I think and we have one that can simply move > >>> location. If anyone wants to take over as lead please feel free. > >>> I have plenty of other things to do. > >> > >> The existing pages for education are identify as marketing part. > >> This is why it is necessary to have a real education project that > >> deal with development and not marketing, this is two really > >> different tasks that can't work together, but side by side. > > > > As I stated earlier Marketing and Pedagogy must work together, > > subprojects of the Education Project. Neither can ignore the > > other. > > Why not. But marketing is lead by Ian and here, it's up to him to > decide where he want his project be. Marketing is NOT led by Ian, the Education sub Project was. It's not HIS project, it's the education communities project, Ian just happened to be the lead. > > >> [...] > >> > >>> It might have been in your head for a long time but its certainly > >>> news to most people on this list! > >> > >> And I told you so when you write me in private about the education > >> project you wanted. > >> > >> [...] > >> > >>> I explained why I didn't do that and why I was giving this some > >>> new consideration given the situation with the Wiki. Since that > >>> situation is about a week old it just needed some thought and > >>> this is a really pressurised time for me with work :-(. If you > >>> had E-mailed me about what you were thinking perhaps this thread > >>> would have been unnecessary. > >> > >> The wiki is there for several month now, not a week. We are all > >> under pressure with work, OOo, family and so on. And I don't need > >> to e-mail privatly people when I'm in a project, I really avoid > >> that and don't like it. > >> My proposal will be public and any body is invited to talk about > >> it and participate. > > > > Sophie, before the beginning of this year you had posted only > > twice on the Education list, that hardly seems supportive. At no > > point have you come to the list offering pedagogical material to > > share with the community, other than a couple of links so I cannot > > see how you can say that what you propose doesn't belong within the > > project as it is. And don't say there isn't a project, thats just > > semantics, a situation forced on us by the technical restrictions > > of the medium. > > Yes, you've noticed that marketing doesn't interest me. As nothing > else happen here (which is normal because it has been designed for > that topic) I have nothing to bring. Marketing is only one part of it. Again I repeat: You haven't posted to the list and been told your post was off topic have you? Then how can you say that it's been "designed" for that topic. You never posted to the list suggesting more pedagogical content. You never posted to the list voicing concerns about a "marketing focus". If you felt you had nothing to bring to this list then I say again, surely this conversation proves that assumption wrong > > >>>> any case, there is no fight about that project. As already said > >>>> the only thing I want is to see a real education project in > >>>> place for OOo and not > >>>> something hide behind marketing because it really prevents some > >>>> people to join and there is no way to put references in place. > >>> > >>> I would agree entirely with that. In fact you are in a better > >>> position to put references into the main web site than I am. > >>> Please do it where you think it will help. I trust your judgement > >>> to do it well. > >> > >> The main web site, as you call it, is Marketing. What we have to > >> enlight, or discuss or point, again, has nothing to do with what > >> is currently on the page. > > > > No I think that what Ian is referring to is the MAIN website. > > www.openoffice.org home. > > same I don't have rights here. No perhaps not but as you pointed out earlier you obviously know the system better and have the right contacts > > > >> Yes, may be, but the process is clear and I will respect it. > > > > I'm always somewhat concerned when process is respected above > > people. > > > > It seems to me that there is no argument that the Education Project > > should come out from under the coattails of the Marketing project. > > > > There is certainly no argument that more pedagogical material and > > perhaps development of a education focussed OOo would be a > > excellent thing. Certainly I would like to see addons such as > > templates and such, lesson plans and course structures geared > > toward education users. > > > > But it seems to me that this sort of thing can already be a part of > > the project. Certainly splitting it in two would seem to be > > counter productive. An overarching Education project, with > > Marketing and Development as two parallel subprojects would seem > > to be a better compromise. > > I agree with you, but as said above, it's not up to me to decide > that. What I want to see achieve and is not here yet has nothing to > do with marketing, that's why I'm not proposing something that could > hurt any body : i.e. nobody is currently taking care of education > that is not marketing and I'm offering to do the work. Great, then do it within the present project or make the present sub-project a standalone project of it's own. Cheers GL -- Graham Lauder OpenOffice.org Marcon New Zealand [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html INGOTs Gold Assessor Trainer www.theingots.org Member Open Document fellowship http://www.opendocumentfellowship.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
