I had to put a .5uf capacitor across my bug to prevent contact bounce on the K3....That was over 2 years ago. Radio Shack sells a 1uf tantalum capacitor and I put 2 in series. They just screw under the bug's connector. Sure cleaned things up!
Steve N4LQ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Christensen" <w...@arrl.net> To: <elecraft@mailman.qth.net> Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 9:45 PM Subject: [Elecraft] Bug Contact Bounce in CW+ Mode >I just dusted off my Vibroplex Champion and tried testing with the K3. The > reports of intermittent audible side-tone click are correct in CW+ mode, > although the click can be heard on either dits or dahs, depending on the > degree of contact bounce. I was able to easily replicate the side-tone > clicks by moving around both bug contacts. > > I am using K3 F/W 4.03. First, I tested the bug by plugging it directly > into the K3's rear panel "KEY" input to confirm the issue. Next, I > plugged > the bug into my external keyer with a modified Schottky gate/2N7000 > combination. Then, the output of the keyer was plugged into the K3's KEY > jack. The Schottky buffer functions as a contact de-bouncer and ensures > that each contact results in the 2N7000 FET going to ground and no state > in > between ground and +Vcc provided by the K3's key input line. The input > buffer cleans the bug contacts, resulting in no audible side-tone click. > > As an alternate to the Schottky buffer, some bug users may want to try > placing a tantalum or electrolytic cap (e.g., 0.1uF - 0.47uF) across the > bug > output terminals, observing correct polarity. Tests awhile back showed > this > helped with contact bounce, but not the pseudo-diode condition created by > contacts of dissimilar metals as earlier discussed by Joe, W4TV. > > I sure wouldn't want Elecraft to in any way compromise CW+ as it presently > functions. As Guy points out, it may be a byproduct of the new ultra-fast > QSK and as such, other methods of contact de-bouncing can be used when > using > a bug or straight key. > > If an external keyer is used with the K3, the first thing I would try is > to > plug the bug into the keyer and set it for "bug mode" and use its internal > contact buffering capabilities to ensure that the K3 sees a clean On/Off > state for every contact closure. Some keyers utilize a second input just > for straight keys and bugs and don't require the operator to change the > keying mode through the keyer's menu. > > Anyway, these methods may be worth a try, starting with a cap or an > external > keyer. If the problem persists, it may require a more robust de-bouncer > like the Shottky gate type I'm using. > > Paul, W9AC > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Guy Olinger K2AV" <olin...@bellsouth.net> > To: "The Smiths" <notforc...@hotmail.com> > Cc: "Elecraft Reflector" <elecraft@mailman.qth.net> > Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 9:02 PM > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Beta Firmware Rev. 4.03: "CW+" > mode(Ultra-fastbreak-in; VOX-CW up to 100 WPM) > > > Well, the Elecraft is getting the signal from both your bug's dit and > your dah contact on the same lead. And if your closures are perfect, > by what process is the K3 able to determine that the contact is from > only one side of a bug to give just that one side a "tick"? And when > the "tick" can be cured as was posted by changing hand technique? The > closure waveform is clearly not the same for dit and dah. > > If you were sending code on an old 807 rig, one of the old time locals > would be on your case for scratchy keying, and tell you which contact > on your bug it was. Your denials of bug contact complicity at the club > meeting would just get you looks. > > What I find interesting out of this is that there is enough interest > in using bugs, that a debouncer option for mechanical keys is a > reasonable request. Getting bug contacts correct for using on low > voltage circuits IS and HAS BEEN a real PITA, never needing to be > broached by the old-timers that designed the bugs. > > The CW+ was introduced particularly to serve high speed CW interests > that were not being addressed, with dits at some speeds pretty close > to a click. Not that someone else shouldn't use it. The current > settings are wonderful for the very high speed stuff and I do hope > that Wayne will not degrade it to debounce mechanical bugs being > operated at speeds serviced well at the regular CW. Just improve the > QSK at the regular CW setting, although I know he is fighting state > change processing budgets. > > 73, Guy > > > On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 2:27 PM, The Smiths <notforc...@hotmail.com> > wrote: >> >> I'm sorry Guy, but I'm not hearing bounce on my key. And I can assure you >> that my bug doesn't have poor contacts on either side. I get ONE single >> Dah >> when sending a Dah.. What I hear is a TICK sound, and not a tone when I >> first key down. If speed and bounce were the issue than I would be sure >> to >> hear it on the dit side regardless of the speed... This problem is >> something else. >> >> Furthermore I don't see why QRQ type QSK mode is "ONLY" for people going >> "fast".. Personally I send as slow as 18wpm and as high as 35 wpm on my >> bugs, and enjoy the fast switching of the new CW+ mode. In my opinion >> THIS >> is what QSK SHOULD sound like.. I would recommend that someone actually >> look >> into keying with more than just the paddles or keyboards. >> >> Perhaps you have misunderstood that people are not trying to complain >> here >> Guy, yet let the Elecraft guys know that they should look into this. >> That's >> why it's still BETA software at this point... Don't poo poo it so fast. >> >> >> >>> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 12:09:31 -0400 >>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Beta Firmware Rev. 4.03: "CW+" mode >>> (Ultra-fastbreak-in; VOX-CW up to 100 WPM) >>> From: olin...@bellsouth.net >>> To: notforc...@hotmail.com >>> CC: drew...@verizon.net; elecraft@mailman.qth.net >>> >>> For speeds that people can send with a bug (usually) the regular CW >>> seems to work quite fine. CW plus is primarily intended to support >>> very fast speeds, often heard now with operators sending with >>> keyboards and other electronic keying devices. >>> >>> Debouncing a bug to prevent false starts when someone has poor >>> contacts on one side is not one of the design goals for CW plus I've >>> heard passed about, though the buffering of keying circuits used in >>> most transmitters now has a small amount of debouncing effect which >>> has likely been hiding the glitch. This would include the regular CW >>> of the K3. >>> >>> With CW plus, however, that small false start has to be taken as >>> legitimate, because pausing a small amount to "make sure" that the >>> operator really means it, would make high speed CW sound jerky. CW >>> plus was made to faithfully reproduce the keying at very high speeds, >>> and has to take the blip seriously. >>> >>> Cleaning and proper adjustment of bug contacts were always needed in >>> the day, because the condition you are talking about would result in >>> scratchy keying...which was never blamed on the transmitter, only on >>> the op who was not keeping his bug "greased". The need is greater now >>> because noone is keying the +100V or more found on the old open >>> cathode circuits any more, and bad bug contacts will easier bother a >>> mere 12 volts on the key, and bother 5 volts even worse. >>> >>> 73, Guy. >>> >>> On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 11:11 AM, The Smiths <notforc...@hotmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> > >>> > I've noticed this as well. For me it's a "Tick" sound EVERY time I hit >>> > the Dah side of my bug. Nothing on the dit side, regardless of the >>> > speed or >>> > preasure. >>> > >>> > I thought at first it was the force that I was using.. So I tried >>> > pushing the lever slowly and carefully against the Dah contact, and it >>> > didn't make the sound.. So then I tried lighting my touch on the dah >>> > side >>> > while I was sending, and sure enough it was still there. >>> > >>> > So, I switched from my Begali Intrepid to my Vibroplex Original, and >>> > then I found that the ticking sound was GONE all together! Now I'm >>> > competely confused. What does the one dah side have that the other >>> > bug's >>> > doesn't??? Gold Contacts? A bad ground connection? More surface >>> > contact >>> > area, a larger area? You tell me. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > I LOVE the new QSK (QRQ), but if I had to deal with that Tick sound on >>> > the dah contact, I would just not use it. Shame. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 05:37:18 -0700 >>> >> From: drew...@verizon.net >>> >> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net >>> >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Beta Firmware Rev. 4.03: "CW+" mode >>> >> (Ultra-fastbreak-in; VOX-CW up to 100 WPM) >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Yes, I noticed this on my bug also. This happens almost entirely on >>> >> characters that start with a 'dah'. I think this is because the index >>> >> finger >>> >> is off the paddle between characters and the initial attack is a >>> >> little >>> >> more >>> >> forceful. Subsequent dahs in the same character sound fine, but that >>> >> first >>> >> one has a 'tick' (a spike by the sound of it). No problem at all with >>> >> the >>> >> dits. >>> >> >>> >> BTW, I don't think this is a matter of bug adjustment; you can get >>> >> the >>> >> same >>> >> effect by tapping down on a straight key from a slight distance. So >>> >> it >>> >> is a >>> >> matter of technique. I can avoid it on the bug by keeping my index >>> >> finger >>> >> resting against the paddle all the time and avoiding that first hard >>> >> strike, >>> >> but can't send as well that way; maybe with practice... >>> >> >>> >> 73, >>> >> Drew >>> >> AF2Z >>> > >>> > _________________________________________________________________ >>> > The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your >>> > inbox. >>> > >>> > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 >>> > ______________________________________________________________ >>> > Elecraft mailing list >>> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >>> > >>> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> > >> >> ________________________________ >> Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from >> your >> inbox. See how. > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
