> WHY RELEASE? > 1. to clarify we know some snapshot is usable. This will get us in > more distributions by default. > 2. to remove that stupid karma over the 17 number if e. Will help > people that do not track us closely to know we're reasonable serious. > 3. we can start to bring in new technology without delaying it even > further (ie: elm and scripting language - js/elev8) > > WHY NOT RELEASE? > 1. there are both bugs (eg: efm) > 2. missing features (xrandr, taskbar, ...)
Of course, we need to fix known bugs. As stated below, people will still miss some features. > EXTRA DISCUSSIONS > * e_widgets is amazingly boring and gets in the way, people expect > something like Elementary to help them. Or even better, for rarely > used features like a mixer control dialog, xrandr dialog, connection > manager configuration these things could be done with a high level > language such as elev8. Thus lots of people would be motivated to help > get more features in. But introducing this now would delay e17 even > more, thus a no go. (Personal note I'm highly demotivated to hack e17 > due this exact reason. Doing a mixer dialog in e_widget is like few > days, in elev8 it should take me few hours -- easier to find than few > days) I think that can be shown with the lack of motivation to work on efm when it could be (and somehow is already) done with elementary. > * we'd like to have an officially supported and widely accepted > high level language. While I've created and maintained Python, seems > it's hatted and going nowhere. So if it's Python, Lua or JS it > doesn't matter, but we need one for most boring things like > configuration dialogs and non-critical paths... (READ: I don't want it > to be in composite manager, eborder, etc -- tho I'm open to have them > in gadcon) I think JS will keep getting hotter. For everything that is not in the tight loop, it makes sense to focus mostly on code easy and fast to write. > AFTER RELEASE: I propose time-based releases, every 3 months we cook a > snap and put it out. Seems to work well for everyone out there, can't > see why it wouldn't work. IMO we can't have feature based snaps > because we don't have enough manpower to do this promises. > Longer release cycles are problematic as "wait my nice feature to get > in, it's one more week! Otherwise I'll have to wait 6+ months to get > it in!" and then this repeats forever as we see now. Time based is ok with me. > BUT USERS WILL COMPLAIN ABOUT MISSING FEATURES: common argument for > xrandr, keyboard languages, taskbar. Users will complain, period. > We'll never be able to cope with minimum features, as this changes > from person to person. Moreover, the more we wait, the more we have to > do. Right now all other desktops implement the new systray and > application menu protocols, really soon this will be "a bare minimum" > for some users. There is proper PulseAudio mixer. Proper > ConnMan/NetworkManager. Soon we'll have the user-session and seat > management that GNOME is doing with systemd... This list is lways > growing. But we're short on human resources. Having a release and > getting Elev8 into E would help bringing more people to help. Users will always complain! We'll be able to make a great video like the one about gnome3 release: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-moXUALZtw If users don't like e as it is currently, so be it! They'll maybe try it again in 3 months and it'll be better. Of course there will be a lot of trolls since duke nukem has been released before e and people will be disappointed that after a decade, e still doesn't make coffee. It will only worsen if we wait. If we don't release asap, I fear we'll always be late to the party. > MY PROPOSAL: just fix the remaining efm bugs and other outstanding > crashes and do a release as is. Remove the e17 karma and get back to > normal life, get e18, e19... and things go into them as fast as we > can. I do agree. We'll add new features faster as people should be a bit more motivated to get their code in the hands of more users with time based releases. We all agree we need to improve our PR. It should also be easier to write some pieces of news every 3 months about what's been done in the last 3 months and get it on some major websites. -- Boris Faure ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The demand for IT networking professionals continues to grow, and the demand for specialized networking skills is growing even more rapidly. Take a complimentary Learning@Cisco Self-Assessment and learn about Cisco certifications, training, and career opportunities. http://p.sf.net/sfu/cisco-dev2dev _______________________________________________ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
