On Friday, October 28, 2011 10:24:07 PM UTC+8, Cedric BAIL wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 3:07 PM, Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri
> <barb...@profusion.mobi> wrote:
> > I'm writing this mail so it's unified and everyone can opine without
> > being in one place at one time (IRC/#edevelop).
> >
> > Recently I've talked to people and while I tried to express it at IRC,
> > raster just got pissed and left. Later people would join and agree
> > with me... so while I'm looking like a jerk I guess I'm not alone in
> > there. I'll try to be as clear and short as possible.
> >
> > WHY RELEASE?
> > 1. to clarify we know some snapshot is usable. This will get us in
> > more distributions by default.
> > 2. to remove that stupid karma over the 17 number if e. Will help
> > people that do not track us closely to know we're reasonable serious.
> > 3. we can start to bring in new technology without delaying it even
> > further (ie: elm and scripting language - js/elev8)
> >
> > WHY NOT RELEASE?
> > 1. there are both bugs (eg: efm)
>
> I will be working on efm after I am done with emotion, it's the top
> priority item for me.
>
> > 2. missing features (xrandr, taskbar, ...)
> >
> > EXTRA DISCUSSIONS
> > * e_widgets is amazingly boring and gets in the way, people expect
> > something like Elementary to help them. Or even better, for rarely
> > used features like a mixer control dialog, xrandr dialog, connection
> > manager configuration these things could be done with a high level
> > language such as elev8. Thus lots of people would be motivated to help
> > get more features in. But introducing this now would delay e17 even
> > more, thus a no go. (Personal note I'm highly demotivated to hack e17
> > due this exact reason. Doing a mixer dialog in e_widget is like few
> > days, in elev8 it should take me few hours -- easier to find than few
> > days)
> >
> > * we'd like to have an officially supported and widely accepted
> > high level language. While I've created and maintained Python, seems
> > it's hatted and going nowhere. So if it's Python, Lua or JS it
> > doesn't matter, but we need one for most boring things like
> > configuration dialogs and non-critical paths... (READ: I don't want it
> > to be in composite manager, eborder, etc -- tho I'm open to have them
> > in gadcon)
> >
> >
> > AFTER RELEASE: I propose time-based releases, every 3 months we cook a
> > snap and put it out. Seems to work well for everyone out there, can't
> > see why it wouldn't work. IMO we can't have feature based snaps
> > because we don't have enough manpower to do this promises.
> > Longer release cycles are problematic as "wait my nice feature to get
> > in, it's one more week! Otherwise I'll have to wait 6+ months to get
> > it in!" and then this repeats forever as we see now.
>
> I like the idea of time based release. 3 months will maybe be hard to
> match, but we should definitly go over 6 months.
>
> > BUT USERS WILL COMPLAIN ABOUT MISSING FEATURES: common argument for
> > xrandr, keyboard languages, taskbar. Users will complain, period.
> > We'll never be able to cope with minimum features, as this changes
> > from person to person. Moreover, the more we wait, the more we have to
> > do. Right now all other desktops implement the new systray and
> > application menu protocols, really soon this will be "a bare minimum"
> > for some users. There is proper PulseAudio mixer. Proper
> > ConnMan/NetworkManager. Soon we'll have the user-session and seat
> > management that GNOME is doing with systemd... This list is lways
> > growing. But we're short on human resources. Having a release and
> > getting Elev8 into E would help bringing more people to help.
>
> User always complain, that's the annoyance with them. When you don't
> release they complain, when you release they complain, when you do
> what they asked...
Why you complain? We wanna moaar feature, less complain. Can we have edje
support javascript? Please? ;)
> > MY PROPOSAL: just fix the remaining efm bugs and other outstanding
> > crashes and do a release as is. Remove the e17 karma and get back to
> > normal life, get e18, e19... and things go into them as fast as we
> > can.
>
> Well, I would have maybe say we should do an alpha at the same time as
> we do the 1.1, so we get developper to try it and maybe help. We do
> publish what is lacking from this alpha release, but alpha is just to
> actually say : "Hey developpers, here is what we have done, try it and
> patch it before it really goes out !". At least that's my point of
> view on alpha.
> --
> Cedric BAIL
>
>
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Take a complimentary Learning@Cisco Self-Assessment and learn
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