Hi, On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 3:07 PM, Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri <barbi...@profusion.mobi> wrote: > I'm writing this mail so it's unified and everyone can opine without > being in one place at one time (IRC/#edevelop). > > Recently I've talked to people and while I tried to express it at IRC, > raster just got pissed and left. Later people would join and agree > with me... so while I'm looking like a jerk I guess I'm not alone in > there. I'll try to be as clear and short as possible. > > WHY RELEASE? > 1. to clarify we know some snapshot is usable. This will get us in > more distributions by default. > 2. to remove that stupid karma over the 17 number if e. Will help > people that do not track us closely to know we're reasonable serious. > 3. we can start to bring in new technology without delaying it even > further (ie: elm and scripting language - js/elev8) > > WHY NOT RELEASE? > 1. there are both bugs (eg: efm)
I will be working on efm after I am done with emotion, it's the top priority item for me. > 2. missing features (xrandr, taskbar, ...) > > EXTRA DISCUSSIONS > * e_widgets is amazingly boring and gets in the way, people expect > something like Elementary to help them. Or even better, for rarely > used features like a mixer control dialog, xrandr dialog, connection > manager configuration these things could be done with a high level > language such as elev8. Thus lots of people would be motivated to help > get more features in. But introducing this now would delay e17 even > more, thus a no go. (Personal note I'm highly demotivated to hack e17 > due this exact reason. Doing a mixer dialog in e_widget is like few > days, in elev8 it should take me few hours -- easier to find than few > days) > > * we'd like to have an officially supported and widely accepted > high level language. While I've created and maintained Python, seems > it's hatted and going nowhere. So if it's Python, Lua or JS it > doesn't matter, but we need one for most boring things like > configuration dialogs and non-critical paths... (READ: I don't want it > to be in composite manager, eborder, etc -- tho I'm open to have them > in gadcon) > > > AFTER RELEASE: I propose time-based releases, every 3 months we cook a > snap and put it out. Seems to work well for everyone out there, can't > see why it wouldn't work. IMO we can't have feature based snaps > because we don't have enough manpower to do this promises. > Longer release cycles are problematic as "wait my nice feature to get > in, it's one more week! Otherwise I'll have to wait 6+ months to get > it in!" and then this repeats forever as we see now. I like the idea of time based release. 3 months will maybe be hard to match, but we should definitly go over 6 months. > BUT USERS WILL COMPLAIN ABOUT MISSING FEATURES: common argument for > xrandr, keyboard languages, taskbar. Users will complain, period. > We'll never be able to cope with minimum features, as this changes > from person to person. Moreover, the more we wait, the more we have to > do. Right now all other desktops implement the new systray and > application menu protocols, really soon this will be "a bare minimum" > for some users. There is proper PulseAudio mixer. Proper > ConnMan/NetworkManager. Soon we'll have the user-session and seat > management that GNOME is doing with systemd... This list is lways > growing. But we're short on human resources. Having a release and > getting Elev8 into E would help bringing more people to help. User always complain, that's the annoyance with them. When you don't release they complain, when you release they complain, when you do what they asked... > MY PROPOSAL: just fix the remaining efm bugs and other outstanding > crashes and do a release as is. Remove the e17 karma and get back to > normal life, get e18, e19... and things go into them as fast as we > can. Well, I would have maybe say we should do an alpha at the same time as we do the 1.1, so we get developper to try it and maybe help. We do publish what is lacking from this alpha release, but alpha is just to actually say : "Hey developpers, here is what we have done, try it and patch it before it really goes out !". At least that's my point of view on alpha. -- Cedric BAIL ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The demand for IT networking professionals continues to grow, and the demand for specialized networking skills is growing even more rapidly. Take a complimentary Learning@Cisco Self-Assessment and learn about Cisco certifications, training, and career opportunities. http://p.sf.net/sfu/cisco-dev2dev _______________________________________________ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
