Hi Lee,
You are a scientist and I am not, but it does seem to me an accurate term,
speaking as a lay person. It is the earthworms that are the invaders, no?
The sedge is on its home turf and is merely taking advantage of favorable
conditions created by the earthworm to expand its niche at the expense of
other natives. If something native expands its niche that is just an
expansion, but if a plant is introduced from another continent that truly is
an invasion. Why not refer to these problems as native monocultures, since
the problem is not the existence of the plant, but rather the absence of
diversity?
--
Carolyn Summers
63 Ferndale Drive
Hastings-on-Hudson, NY 10706
914-478-5712
From: Lee Frelich <[email protected]>
Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:31:01 -0600
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: [ENTS] Re: Shrub-layer an empty niche?
Ed, Don:
I find the term native invasive useful and will continue to use it in
publications (along with exotic invasive and exotic non-invasive). Native
invasive is particularly useful for species like Carex pensylvanica, that
have expanded their niche to exclude most other native species permanently
over vast areas in the absence of disturbance, but that happened to be
preadapted to the disappearance of certain mycorrhizae from the soil.
Lee
At 03:56 PM 12/11/2008, you wrote:
> Don,
>
> I am in complete agreement about the term Native Invasive. It is an oxymoron
> and should be abandonned. The concept trying to be expressed is interesting
> however. Consider that something might cause the explosive increase in the
> number of one native species to the detriment of others that would normally be
> expected in an area. In other examples a single species may be present in
> greater numbers than in the adjacent areas because of some specific type of
> disturbance. This condition may persist for a long time or be relatively
> ephemeral min nature. In this regard I am thinking of the Marion Brooks
> Natural Area in PA. Here the location was logged, then a massive fire burnt
> the area destroying most of the organic material and soil structure. the area
> was pioneered by white birch. This occurred 80 or 90 years ago and the area
> persists as a stand of almost pure white birch. other species are not
> recolonizing the area as might be expected in a normal disturbed region.
>
> Another example to a degree might be patches of forests that have limited
> species diversity because of alleopathy of some of the species present. If
> some of these limited areas were to expand it would be an invasive-like effect
> that limited the diversity of species present in the area compared to the
> normal forest.
>
> I guess I am just rambling at this point.
>
> Ed
>
>
> Join the Primal Forests - Ancient Trees Community at:
> http://primalforests.ning.com/
> ----- Original Message -----
From: DON BERTOLETTE <mailto:[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:12 PM
Subject: [ENTS] Re: Shrub-layer an empty niche?
Ryan/Ed-
>From my perspective, the phrase "native invasive" is a contradiction in
terms, and should be discontinued immediately, lest it gain coinage by being
"Google-able"....;>}
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