Kirk, ENTS, Poison Ivy also acts as an invasive. Often overgrowing trees along clearings. It makes measuring girth on some trees difficult, especially in summer.
James Parton On Dec 12, 5:05 am, Kirk Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > Native grape vines act like an invasive in some cases in the right > conditions if you ask me. Almost as bad as certain exotic vine species. I > always cut out grape vines if they start growing on my property. I don't > like them that much. > > Kirk Johnson > > From: DON BERTOLETTE <[email protected]> > Reply-To: [email protected] > Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 02:40:50 +0000 > To: <[email protected]> > Subject: [ENTS] Re: Shrub-layer an empty niche? > > Lee- > Of course you can do what you wish without any sayso from me. > But perhaps you could explain how this differs from any native species > competing with other natives when faced with an opportunity brought about by > a disturbance, whether natural or, presumably in the specific case you refer > to, by man's introduction of non-native earthworms(?)? > Your offered example is so specific. I believe Ed and I were discussing a > much more general scenario, where we were worried that such a usage was > likely to introduce confusion into a topic already becoming fraught with new > terminology to the lay public (non-native, alien invader, invasives, etc.) > -Don > > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: [ENTS] Re: Shrub-layer an empty niche? > Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 19:03:21 -0500 > > Ok Lee whatever you say, > > Join the Primal Forests - Ancient Trees Community > at:http://primalforests.ning.com/ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lee Frelich <mailto:[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 6:31 PM > Subject: [ENTS] Re: Shrub-layer an empty niche? > > Ed, Don: > > I find the term native invasive useful and will continue to use it in > publications (along with exotic invasive and exotic non-invasive). Native > invasive is particularly useful for species like Carex pensylvanica, that > have expanded their niche to exclude most other native species permanently > over vast areas in the absence of disturbance, but that happened to be > preadapted to the disappearance of certain mycorrhizae from the soil. > > Lee > > At 03:56 PM 12/11/2008, you wrote: > Don, > > I am in complete agreement about the term Native Invasive. It is an > oxymoron and should be abandonned. The concept trying to be expressed is > interesting however. Consider that something might cause the explosive > increase in the number of one native species to the detriment of others that > would normally be expected in an area. In other examples a single species > may be present in greater numbers than in the adjacent areas because of some > specific type of disturbance. This condition may persist for a long time or > be relatively ephemeral min nature. In this regard I am thinking of the > Marion Brooks Natural Area in PA. Here the location was logged, then a > massive fire burnt the area destroying most of the organic material and soil > structure. the area was pioneered by white birch. This occurred 80 or 90 > years ago and the area persists as a stand of almost pure white birch. > other species are not recolonizing the area as might be expected in a normal > disturbed region. > > Another example to a degree might be patches of forests that have limited > species diversity because of alleopathy of some of the species present. If > some of these limited areas were to expand it would be an invasive-like > effect that limited the diversity of species present in the area compared to > the normal forest. > > I guess I am just rambling at this point. > > Ed > > Join the Primal Forests - Ancient Trees Community > at:http://primalforests.ning.com/ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: DON BERTOLETTE <mailto:[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:12 PM > Subject: [ENTS] Re: Shrub-layer an empty niche? > > Ryan/Ed- > From my perspective, the phrase "native invasive" is a contradiction in > terms, and should be discontinued immediately, lest it gain coinage by being > "Google-able"....;>} > > <BR --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org You are subscribed to the Google Groups "ENTSTrees" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
