Hi Archytas.....I guess you were busy.... something exciting?... like travel to some exotic place?
I seem to remember about "fascist Bardot".... she's still a looker, though.... ever see pictures of Mussolini's granddaughter? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alessandra_Mussolini https://www.google.com/search?q=mussolini%27s+granddaughter&safe=off&hl=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=8rF5Ue6IOuXH0wG5n4BQ&sqi=2&ved=0CEYQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=629 not quite up to Brigitte's appeal... but not bad... same blond look... wealth tax.... your definition....sad but true.... I'm not knowledgeable but it appears to be most widely used in Switzerland....hey, the Swiss definitely know about money (and they are fairly equal-minded in internal politics).... It may be a fairly good notion- if done right... "euthanise) excess money that could be speculated in money making money or used to extract excessive economic rents."....What is your take on the basic "ethics" of Adam Smith... Archytas.... do you think that he was a "good faith" capitalist and economics thinker?.... I mean, do you think his "heart" (social conscience) was in the right place?..... Haring and Douglas (2012) 'Economists and the Powerful'. .... so much to read.....the curiosity is willing, but the time ... maybe I'll try to get at least a look at it... "structured jubilee on household debt. This is complex and would need some international cooperation. My model comes from sports competition - "... can you give a link or reference that I could look at for basic notions? "in my view much of what we have is either an elitist route through the best schools and universities that gives the rich a reproductive (of themselves as rich) advantage under lies of meritocracy, or child-minding until 21 and debt peonage after. Humans are the only animals with the vile teenage period. I'd go for much higher child-minding and early education quality with better food until fourteen in small schools - free and with all year round child- minding. After that we'd go Internet with universities charged with civic social organisation and local-international work projects. "... we could discuss this at length....personally.... I'd want a Nominal9Thematic Dialectic Logic requirement for all students at all levels.....not to sound self-important or self-serving....but I think you get the gist of my way of nominalist ( I call it) thinking......more empirical...actual physical and reality (factual) hands on... less abstraction just for its own sake... and an "ethical" component with a teaching of the possible range of all options... especially at the "course of action" human interaction levels... historical, cultural, psycho-sociological, creative.... etc. Your last paragraph I will leave alone for now.....it gets into some "political" areas that.... as a self-styled "anarchist" HAR I might rebel at or about with you.... Revolution.... I say... people should always strive for the most and best "freedoms" they can get.....Damn the nay sayers.... even those who think that they are.... shall we say.... "enlightened".... but I don't say that there is necessarily any of that sentiment or intention in what you may have in mind.... As usual.... nice learning from and talking with you... again....Archytas.. On Thursday, April 25, 2013 5:13:52 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote: > > Bardo was fascist connected once. > There already is a wealth tax. The money goes from the poor to the > rich. > The idea amongst most classical economists was to encourage production > for social benefit. They wanted to curb or eliminate (Adam Smith's > term was euthanise) excess money that could be speculated in money > making money or used to extract excessive economic rents. Lots of > facts in Haring and Douglas (2012) 'Economists and the Powerful'. > Some tendency to treat you colonials as dumb-ass that's inaccurate. > I want to go further than a wealth tax and bring in a structured > jubilee on household debt. This is complex and would need some > international cooperation. My model comes from sports competition - > that is designing competition that has rules, active refereeing > subject to public scrutiny - but also tries to keep 'teams' in the > competition, perhaps subject to relegation and promotion. We need > competition that doesn't kill the other team or manipulate itself to > monopoly. Just as you can't compete in soccer by using guns, you > shouldn't compete in industrial manufacture through global wage/ > conditions arbitrage. And we'd need some kind of showtime - as in > people not buying the crap cars you make. > > We generally miss something structural that's going on. I label this > robot heaven - work has got a lot easier thanks to robots like > tractors and much more productive. We could also look at stuff like > education - in my view much of what we have is either an elitist route > through the best schools and universities that gives the rich a > reproductive (of themselves as rich) advantage under lies of > meritocracy, or child-minding until 21 and debt peonage after. Humans > are the only animals with the vile teenage period. I'd go for much > higher child-minding and early education quality with better food > until fourteen in small schools - free and with all year round child- > minding. After that we'd go Internet with universities charged with > civic social organisation and local-international work projects. > > Big questions arise about how much work we need and how much > opportunity we can give or need to restrict. Much of our dire > conditioning in medieval work ethics and forces of biological/ > propaganda hierarchy doesn't help us believe we can do something this > radical - and nor does bleeding heart liberalism on problems in > policing bandits, politicians, corporations, sexist religions and > nutters. There is also no point in modernising, say, farming in > India, to see millions die because no other work/income opportunity is > provided to prevent new owners just letting them die as the food is > exported (manifests of food leaving Ireland during the potato blight > are informative here). And there's no point in doing any of this if > some people insist on breeding us to global warming oblivion. > > > On 21 Apr, 18:59, nominal9 <nomin...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > I sort of like the wealth tax idea because it looks to be more as wners > > "progressive" (i.e., affects more the wealthy than the not-so-wealthy) > > right off the bat... unlike an income "flat tax" rate... HAR.. I sort of > > think that the way it's explained and sorted out in the wiki article.... > it > > might (almost definitely would) be strongly opposed by the "rich" and > the > > libertarian minded....The France way of instituting a wealth tax has > > definitely caused a "capital flight".... There's the example of that > actor > > Gerard Depardieu, and I think I heard that even Brigitte Bardot backed > the > > "capital flight" notion... > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%A9rard_Depardieuhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigitte_Bardothttp://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/brigitte-bardot-backs-gerard-de... > > > > Depardieu, I can take or leave.....but Bardot.....well.... what hetero > male > > our age could possibly leave her behind (take the "behind" part any way > > please HAR).... > > Anyway.. it (wealth tax) seems to have worked well in other places..... > > but, like I said.... it would likely be fought tooth and nail by the > > conservatives here in the U.S.... in any format or in any combination of > > things... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Saturday, April 20, 2013 5:59:30 PM UTC-4, Lonnie Clay wrote: > > > > > I never saw that article before... > > > I read the whole thing with keen interest. Some points to consider : > > > 1) The tax I propose is on the total wealth of all individuals and > > > organizations (including government), without exceptions, not just a > net > > > wealth of individuals. > > > 2) Paying the tax should be voluntary, without penalty for failure to > > > declare some item of wealth, EXCEPT that undeclared wealth is not > protected > > > by legal processes. > > > 3) The tax should render invalid other taxes on economic activity, > rather > > > than supplementing them. > > > > > Thanks for the link. > > > > > Lonnie Courtney Clay > > > > > On Saturday, April 20, 2013 1:07:10 PM UTC-7, nominal9 wrote: > > > > >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_tax > > > > >> Does this wiki entry do the wealth tax idea justice?.....I'm > game.....but > > >> I can just hear the (mixed metaphor)..."fat cats squeal like stuck > > >> pigs"..... already.....HAR....now, all we have to do is get it > enacted into > > >> law..... that should take about 200 years, minimum, here in the U.S. > > > > >> On Saturday, April 20, 2013 1:02:10 PM UTC-4, Lonnie Clay wrote: > > > > >>> Three clauses of constitutional law should do it : > > >>> 1) Value shall legally exist in civil law only to the extent that > the > > >>> applicable wealth tax was paid in advance of the legal issue. > > >>> 2) Value shall exist in criminal cases as specified by applicable > laws > > >>> and regulations. > > >>> 3) There shall be no taxation of economic activity, and usage fees > shall > > >>> be appropriate for expenses incurred by government entities. > > > > >>> So how about that? > > > > >>> Lonnie Courtney Clay > > > > >>> On Saturday, April 20, 2013 9:51:08 AM UTC-7, nominal9 wrote: > > > > >>>> Hi Lonnie....I'll accept you option to "tax wealth".....can you > explain > > >>>> "how" and "what" such a set of taxes would look like?.....cure my > > >>>> ignorance... I will not mind at all.....really. > > >>>> Here's another article, below... that follows up on the general > notion > > >>>> of world-wide economic malaise..... > > > > >>>> > http://www.sfgate.com/news/politics/article/G-20-countries-pledge-str... > > > > >>>> WASHINGTON (AP) — World finance leaders are pledging to pursue > further > > >>>> actions to bolster a disappointingly weak global recovery. They > also > > >>>> reaffirmed their commitment to avoid using their currencies as an > economic > > >>>> weapon to gain unfair advantage in foreign trade. > > > > >>>> Finance ministers and central bank presidents from the leading rich > and > > >>>> developing nations, or Group of 20, wrapped up two days of talks > Friday > > >>>> with a joint statement that said they had managed to avoid some of > the > > >>>> biggest economic threats, but growth was still too weak in many > countries > > >>>> and unemployment too high. > > > > >>>> The joint statement revealed no major new policy initiatives but > did > > >>>> urge the United States and some other countries to emphasize > efforts to > > >>>> jump-start growth even if that meant less emphasis on deficit > reduction in > > >>>> the near term. > > > > >>>> "Further actions are required to make growth strong, sustainable > and > > >>>> balanced," the G-20 said in their joint statement. > > > > >>>> The United States was represented at the talks by Treasury > Secretary Jacob > > >>>> Lew< > http://www.sfgate.com/?controllerName=search&action=search&channel=ne...>, > > > >>>> who was attending his first G-20 meeting since taking office in > late > > >>>> February, and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke. The > discussions were > > >>>> led by Russian Finance Minister Anton Siluanov< > http://www.sfgate.com/?controllerName=search&action=search&channel=ne...>whose > > country is leading the G-20 this year. > > > > >>>> The G-20 joint statement singled out the recent aggressive > > >>>> credit-easing moves pushed by Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe< > http://www.sfgate.com/?controllerName=search&action=search&channel=ne...>, > > > >>>> saying they were intended to stop prolonged deflation and support > > >>>> domestic demand. > > > > >>>> Those comments were viewed as giving a green-light to Japan's > program, > > >>>> which has driven the value of the yen down by more than 20 percent > against > > >>>> the dollar since October. That sizable decline has raised concerns > among > > >>>> U.S. manufacturing firms that Japan's real goal is not to fight > deflation, > > >>>> a destabilizing period of falling prices, but to weaken the yen as > a way to > > >>>> gaining trade advantages. > > > > >>>> To address those concerns, the G-20 did repeat language it used in > > >>>> February that all countries should not use their currency as a > trade weapon > > >>>> and guard against policies that could trigger currency wars. > > > > >>>> Japanese officials told reporters following the discussions that > they > > >>>> were pleased by the support the G-20 had given them to pursue > growth > > >>>> policies in an effort to lift the world's third largest economy out > of its > > >>>> two-decade slump. > > > > >>>> Haruhiko Kuroda< > http://www.sfgate.com/?controllerName=search&action=search&channel=ne...>, > > > >>>> head of the Bank of Japan< > http://www.sfgate.com/?controllerName=search&action=search&channel=ne...>, > > > >>>> said that Japan would continue with its monetary easing policies > which he > > >>>> said were aimed at stimulating domestic growth and fighting > deflation and > > >>>> not an effort to gain trade advantages. > > > > >>>> "There has been international understanding and acceptance of this > so > > >>>> we can have further confidence to appropriately conduct monetary > policy," > > >>>> he told reporters at a briefing after the G-20 talks ended. > > > > >>>> Siluanov told reporters at a news conference that the group did not > > >>>> spend as much time discussing currency issues as they had in > February. > > > > >>>> The United States had sought to get a strong endorsement of the > need to > > >>>> emphasize growth, given the weakness of the global economy, rather > than > > >>>> trying to achieve quick progress on cutting deficits. > > > > >>>> However, other nations, led by Germany, have resisted a move away > from > > >>>> austerity programs, saying it is critical to keep making progress > in > > >>>> getting government deficits under control. > > > > >>>> German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble< > http://www.sfgate.com/?controllerName=search&action=search&channel=ne...>apologized > > to a Washington audience for being late for a speech after the > > >>>> G-20 discussions, saying, "on reduction of indebtedness ... we have > a > > >>>> little bit of differences of opinion all over the world, to be very > frank, > > >>>> and that's the reason I am a little bit late." > > > > >>>> Schaeuble said the German position remains that "if you promise to > > >>>> deliver only immediately on growth, you will only create the next > bubble" > > >>>> in asset prices. > > > > >>>> The G-20 talks came in advance of meetings of the steering > committees > > >>>> of the 188-nation International Monetary Fund< > http://www.sfgate.com/?controllerName=search&action=search&channel=ne...>and > its sister organization, the World > > >>>> Bank< > http://www.sfgate.com/?controllerName=search&action=search&channel=ne...>. > > > >>>> Those talks began Friday and were scheduled to conclude on > Saturday. > > > > >>>> "Strengthening global demand is imperative and must be at the top > of > > >>>> our agenda," Lew said in remarks Friday before the IMF panel. > "Stronger > > >>>> demand in Europe is critical to global growth." > > > > >>>> The G-20 statement said that there was an urgent need for the > 17-nation > > >>>> euro currency area to move towards a banking union and reduce the > > >>>> "financial fragmentation" that now exists. > > > > >>>> Canadian Finance Minister Jim Flaherty< > http://www.sfgate.com/?controllerName=search&action=search&channel=ne...>said > that the G-20 countries remain committed to setting hard targets for > > >>>> reducing debt to a certain percentage of the economy, an idea first > raised > > >>>> at an economic summit in Toronto in 2010. He said the issue would > be > > >>>> explored more when leaders of the G-20 countries hold their summit > in > > >>>> Russia in September. > > > > >>>> However, Siluanov told reporters he did not believe there was > > >>>> widespread > > > > ... > > > > read more » > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Epistemology" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to epistemology+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to epistemology@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/epistemology?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
