It is part of reason that I want to put
 a screen shot about what we have right now.
 We will have a trash can later.
 And we discussed the possibility of shelf.
 All of them will make the screen more and more crowded.
 That is also a reason I mention BeOS's Deskbar before.
 Expose-style stuff is a solution, but it is not coming soon.

This is a very good point. We need to consider what exactly is going on our desktop. I know Nicolas and Quentin have both expressed wanting to leave icons off the desktop, so presumably the trash can wouldn't be there (a la classic Mac OS). But that is just an example... where is all this going to live? We also haven't come up with a satisfactory solution for what happens to minimized windows. Maybe it would be worthwhile for me to come up with a mockup similar to what I had here:

http://jesseross.com/clients/gnustep/ui/concepts/01/ui.png

Not that this is necessarily the correct route to go, but this takes into consideration (following top to bottom):

 - App icons
- Minimized window storage (the 3x3 grid) (again, probably not the best solution)
 - Buffer/Visual Pasteboard (3 in a column)
- Space for additional widgets (or things like a trash can, etc, although I think a trash can is better positioned in the file manager)
 - Calendar/Clock

The problem with this solution is one of space, as it's bulky. However, I'm not showing it as the plan to follow -- only that maybe we should create a mockup first, using input from the whole team, to build something we can use as a model to follow. It'll make the desktop-building process less blind, and would allow us to implement things with a focus on their use-cases and usability.

Maybe we should even look at again at Brian Muhumuza's ideas, as he's solved a lot of these specifics:

http://www.nabble.com/a-search-for-answers.-t2367960.html
https://mail.gna.org/public/etoile-discuss/2007-01/msg00003.html

I realize much of this will take more time, but now is the time to decide on solutions, so we're not trying to hack together or rewrite incompatible components in the future.

 If you have a menu bar only for these icons,
 it is really a waste of space.

Yep -- I completely agree... it is a waste of space.

 It is a bigger issue related to the whole design of desktop.
That is something we should have a detailed discussion sometime later.

Sorry... is this later enough? ;)


J.



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