>> ...by Electrify America, they said that they charge 31¢/kWh. I have seen rates as low as 3 cents per kW for EV charging off-peak for those that sign up for a TOU plan (includes much higher peak rates)
"Hydrogen Fool cell" is a reasonable moniker. Wont this thread ever die? OOps, forgot. My home solar makes the EV charging free... (Well, no, with Grid tie it costs me 14 cents per kWh because that is what each kW is worth that I push back into the grid so using it to charge an EV is 14cents/kWh lost). Hummh... bob On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 1:29 AM Peter VanDerWal via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > > > Also, since we are talking about the consumers perspective, I think you are > > making common mistake > > in equating cost with price. > > > > Going back to your comment about cost of charging, that has to be based on > > price, not cost. At a > > Yes I know price and cost are two different things, however, the average > consumer considers them to be the same thing. > > While there are thousands of free charging stations (especially in > California), including DC fast charge stations, and while there are several > EV producers that offer free charging for several years with new EVs, we will > ignore those. > > For the charging stations that require payment, I have seen everywhere from > ~$0.20 to $0.55 per kwh, $0.31 seems to be an average price. I suspect > competition will start driving the price down in some areas. > > Of course the majority of EV owners charge at home, where electricity is much > cheaper. My solar has already paid for itself twice over, so my price/cost > is essentially zero. I haven't paid an electric bill in 11 years. > > According to: https://cafcp.org/content/cost-refill > The average price of hydrogen in California is $16.51 per kg, which can power > an FCEV "up to" 75 miles. This price is heavily subsidized by California. > In addition the state pays on average $1.6 million of the $2 million, for > each station. > > Using the EPA rated range on my Chevy Bolt (the 'up to' range is much > higher), and using the $0.31 price per kwh, the price to go 75 miles is ~ > $6.80. > For the average EV driver in California charging at home, and paying the > average price for electricity, it would price would be about $4.00. > Then again, many places in California offer special rates for charging EVs > where it's even cheaper. > > So, the price for charging an EV ranges from infinitely cheaper to, perhaps > half the cost of Hydrogen. > > > And you haven’t said anything about cost of renewables, and isn’t that what > > we want? > > Since it requires 3x-4x as much electricity to power the FCEV, which means it > requires 3x-4x as much renewable infrastructure to fuel a FCEV. Pretty sure > I have mentioned this several times already. > > > > > I recently saw a chart of cost of renewables by geographic region in the > > U.S. that showed the cost > > of renewables to be available for as low as 2 or 3¢/kWh. > > > > Plug Power (disclosure: a client of mine) has said publicly that they > > believe that they can produce > > hydrogen within a few years that will be competitive with diesel, given > > access to 3¢ solar. They > > are currently building a number of production plants. > Most hydrogen fuel stations only pay 5-7¢ per kWh, so that won't make a > significant drop it the cost. > The cost of fuel is more than just the price of the electricity, under normal > circumstances it would include recouping the cost of building the station, > labor costs, repair costs, etc. > Currently California is paying 80% of the cost of installing the Hydrogen > fuel station, with local cities, etc. pay most of the remaining. > I don't believe those costs are being reflected in the sales price of the > Hydrogen. Since it's not sustainable for the state to continue to subsidize > the fuel stations much longer, I would expect to see and increase in the > price of Hydrogen. > At this point most EV charging stations are being paid for by private > companies that expect to make a profit, which is why it costs so much to > charge. > > The cost of the fuel centers is 10-20 times as much for Hydrogen, and > additionally they would require 3-4 times as much renewable infrastructure. > There is no way Hydrogen will EVER compete with the price of selling > electricity directly without subsidies. > _______________________________________________ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org _______________________________________________ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
