I'm over here with a plunger and snake, clearing a clog out of the listserver.
So this is what happened. Phil posted a very long message to the list, with a Tesla process list, and the listserver held it because of its size. Phil CCed Lawrence, and the replies went back and forth between them, ALSO going to the server but not being distributed. And the reason they weren't distributed is that Phil and Lawrence top-posted all the way through, so a 256k byte message stayed tacked on to every message. By the last post, the message had grown to 352kB. Folks, please don't do that. To terminally mix my metaphors, it gives the listserver indigestion. To set things straight, here's the blocked thread, condensed to a manageable size: ========== Lawrence, Thu, 18 Apr 2024 12:30:33 +0000 (UTC) > all modern software on complex systems with a large OS will have some > amount of memory leaks, so it's always a good idea to do an occasional > reboot to clear things up. I've seen Tesla uptimes without reboots of > over 2 years, but they are usually running like molasses by then. That's such a defeatist attitude. Memory leaks aren't inevitable and there are lots of tools to find them. It's the result of shoddy, lazy programming, not some fact of nature. Howevercomplicated you think the Tesla software is, the Linux OS is much bigger project and more complicated and luckily Linus has always had a low tolerance for stupid excuses. ----- Phil, Thu, 18 Apr 2024 08:14:20 -0700 (15:14:20 UTC) You can't compare an embedded system designed for industrial use to a large- surface GUI on a large OS with a lot of apps. You probably interact with a handful of systems every day that run linux. They all run many layers, and It probably usually isn't the Kernel. Do you have the source for the top layers? Do you even have a shell, let alone root? Even if you are a developer of your caliber, and somehow had source and access, (almost never true) it's simply not feasible to attempt to debug someone else's system for some memory leaks that may cause reduced performance after weeks of uptime. Here's the process list on a Tesla Model 3 MCU just to give you an idea of what you'd be up against: (See original message for list) ***** ----- Lawrence, Thu, 18 Apr 2024 15:28:38 +0000 (UTC) I'm not saying it's "your" problem to solve. It's the guy who wrote it. And getting the process list is a good place to start. I'm actually not overwhelmed by it. Most of the processes have a pretty miniscule memory. Sort by memory usage and compare over time. As I said I'm not a Tesla guy, but I used to have a pretty good understanding of Linux. I see some of them use "QT". Personally I think "QT" has become very bloated from what used to be. I wouldn't use a "QT"application anymore. That's my opinion anyway. I also see "minijail". Is it working? This isn't rocket science. It's just work. ----- Phil, Thu, 18 Apr 2024 08:44:19 -0700 (15:44:19 UTC) On a system this large there is no one "guy". It's made up of many years of legacy code with a team of hundreds of different developers over time. They aren't going to just throw out QT and re-code it from scratch. There's too much inertia, and no matter what you think, nobody cares about fixing the leaks. I'd argue the Linux kernel itself is highly bloated compared to where it was when I started using it. ----- Lawrence, Thu, 18 Apr 2024 15:53:21 +0000 (UTC) Of course it's not one "guy". But it most likely is "one guy" who made the mistake. Anyway, if nobody cares about memory leaks, then they will never get fixed...and lowering standards probably isn't the path to excellence. I personally am stubborn enough to care. Anyway, since you have the data, why not at least narrow it down to what process is growing over time? That ought to give you a path toward fixing it.....and you were the one to ask me what I'd do...and I'm telling you. ----- Phil, Thu, 18 Apr 2024 09:36:57 -0700 (16:36:57 UTC) I have way better things to do, and I don't have source code, I'm sure as hell not going to bother decomp. I don't mind an occasional reboot. ----- Lawrence, Thu, 18 Apr 2024 17:02:58 +0000 (UTC) I completely understand. As I tried to say it's not your problem, it's the people who wrote it. As I said, I don't have a Tesla, but looking through your process list, I see a lot of what looks like QT apps. As an early user of QT, it used to be pretty good when it was 10 people and made really pretty X apps when most of the stuff looked pretty stodgy. But honestly the good things about it was that drew standard widgets and menus....but they've tried to make it way bigger than was necessary and tried to lock the user into using their thread stuff, their SQL stuff, their OPENGL, etc. IMHO I'm a smart enough to make my own decisions about that. I just want it to draw some menus and get some callbacks for the mouse/keyboard. I had to debug through their SQL stuff one time because it didn't work, and that was enough for me. I think it's gotten ridiculous and I don't want to be forced into using their paradigms, their IDE's. I'll pick my own thank you. If I were Musk, or who ever, I'd seriously look at gnome. Most of the linux world seems to be using it and not QT anymore. I'm guessing that others have come to the same conclusions as me. For peoplewho actually understand these things, most GUI stuff is more or less the same when you get down to it. 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