From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of spudboy...@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2013 9:50 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Our Demon-Haunted World
Chris, I just read a study by the U of Colorado, published in the Journal,
Bioscience, claiming that up to 1 million bats have been killed by green
energy wind turbines. The arrival of solar power, its decline in price, and
thus it will power all human civilization never arrives. Its what the math
people call asymptotic, which in this case means, it never achieves target,
it never gets there. The same with nuclear fusion, despite happy reports. It
never gets there after decades of research. Thus, it cannot be Relied Upon
to substitute for Dirty energy sources. What might prime the technological
pump is the market place, where supply and demand are invoked, and there is
commercial reason to produce minus government hand outs to crony companies,
in Germany, and in the US. With tax payer monies, these companies vanish,
like farts in a high wind, like Solyndra did. Unreliable substitutes are non
substitutes.
Blablabla - do you just regurgitate talking points you hear on Faux News? In
the real world the installed base of solar power has exploded by a factor of
20X in ten years and is closing in on 50GW of installed capacity. It must
begreat living in a fact free world spudboy - you get to say whatever you
want (or more probably whatever talking points you were fed) Do you realize
the level of subsidies that all the fossil energy sectors currently and have
long enjoyed? Of course you don't, because that does not fit the agenda of
your thought leaders.
In many markets solar PV is starting to become the cheapest source of supply
and the price per watt keeps falling as the price of fossil energy keeps
rising (long term trends) The crossover point is very close and may already
have been reached.
Solar is already far cheaper than burning coal if you count the external
costs that the coal companies currently are able to shed onto the commons
and onto the backs of the general tax payers. A recent Harvard University
study has estimated that the externalized costs of the US Coal sector is
well over 350 billion dollars a year.
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris de Morsella <cdemorse...@yahoo.com>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Nov 9, 2013 12:12 am
Subject: RE: Our Demon-Haunted World
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com
<mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com?> ] On Behalf Of spudboy...@aol.com
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2013 5:49 PM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Our Demon-Haunted World
If you hold the Rational Optimist view aka Matt Ridley, people will act
altruistic much more, if they get a reward, then in they get jack. >>A
dictatorship of your own preference is suitable for many, but not for most.
Plus, think about pure materiality. If a cruel dictator has his goon point a
semi-automatic at each of our heads and demands of us to immediately produce
an energy source that will power his civilization for the rest of his life,
and unless we can produce this energy source, bang goes the gun. I will
shout shale gas or even tar sands. If you shout out sun and wind, bang goes
the gun against your skull. Why? Because even after decades of work, even
after daily advances, there's no city on earth that is now powered by sun or
win, were that it was so. My point is we cannot legislate reality. I will
take the marketplace with all its flaws versus coercive government. Which
would you choose?
I do not subscribe to your Manichean world view, in fact I find it ill
reflective of the complexity and nuance of reality. You like to see things
in a either this or that kind of way, and maybe that works for you, but it
doesn't work for me.
Are you really that certain you know your energy facts. Global installed
solar consumption went from 2.1 TWh in 2001 to 55.7 TWh in 2011; growing by
a factor of more than 20X in 10years; this is reflected in the growth in
installed capacity, which went from a little over 2GW of installed solar
capacity in 2001 to around 20GW of installed capacity in 2011. In fact there
is so much solar and wind electric capacity already installed in Germany
that on days which are favorable for wind and solar power, the overabundance
of supply can drive the wholesale price into sharply negative territory. The
market inverts and in order to shed load onto the grid - when supply exceeds
demand beyond the capacity of the grid to manage it -- you need to pay the
grid operators because the grid cannot accept any more energy without
becoming unstable - the grid is a balancing between instantaneous supply and
demand (act at the speed of electricity) The cost per kwh of solar PV is
following a Moore's Law type progression in falling costs and the dollar per
kwh of solar PV are closing in on the cost of coal generated electricity,
which has been the least expensive (largely because it can externalize
hundreds of billions of dollars per year of costs incurred by mining, and
burning coal onto the commons).
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris de Morsella <cdemorse...@yahoo.com>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Nov 7, 2013 9:44 pm
Subject: RE: Our Demon-Haunted World
-----Original Message-----
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com
<mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com?> ] On Behalf Of spudboy...@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 4:26 PM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Our Demon-Haunted World
>>Not to be sarcastic, but probably yes. Money from bitumin brings money for
research into environmental remediation. It also helps liberate people from
pouring cash into the OPEC world, which seems to only inflame Muslim
passions. Plus the Canadians are world class technologists and will likely
invent more efficient engines, and also fund the green technologies that you
crave. Theres a reason why poor nations do not do technology well.
You have a cornucopian view that we can go on making horrible messes on this
planet without worrying about the consequences because somehow it will all
get magically remediated.... yeah like that actually happens in the real
world. Remediation is a cost center NOT a profit center; it is done only to
the minimum level necessary in order to stay just this side of the law. You
are free to say whatever you want of course, but I find it difficult to
believe your hypothesis that the very same humans who profit from raping the
earth will -- after the fact and after they have lined their pockets with
ill-gotten wealth -- will somehow do a 180 degree turn and start behaving in
the altruistic noble manner you seem so certain they will.
Are you saying that the Arabs would be happier if they had no oil wealth...
that all this money has made them hopping mad? Green technologies are
already proving themselves -- without your plucky Canadian tar sand
billionaires (some of whom are Texans by the way) deciding to invest their
profits in green technology -- as if they would.
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris de Morsella <cdemorse...@yahoo.com>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:29 pm
Subject: Re: Our Demon-Haunted World
Those plucky Canadians -- as you term them -- are criminally destroying vast
swaths of Alberta turning it into a poisoned chemical saturated moonscape as
well as sucking up vast amounts of water from other potential uses --
including agriculture. Will the bitumen sweated out of that sand be worth
the ultimate costs to get it?
On Thursday, November 7, 2013 11:24 AM, Jesse Mazer
<laserma...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:50 AM, <spudboy...@aol.com> wrote:Fur
sure, that was the truth. Now we got's shale gas, which seems to pay a lot
better, is safer to go after, and is cleaner, carbon-wise. Unless you are
buying into technological unemployment (robots, software) then we have to
face the fact. BHO's Keynesian way has fallen on its ass and has stayed
down, like a fighter throwing a fight, after a payoff.
I've read Keynesians like Paul Krugman say that the level of stimulus was
actually not enough by Keynesian standards (and too much went to tax cuts),
but certainly the US economy with its level of stimulus did much better than
most of the states that more thoroughly rejected Keynesianism and instead
chose austerity in the midst of a recession, like the UK...see various
graphs at http://graphsagainstausterity.tumblr.com/ (click on any graph to
see the original article it came from)
Increased government employment doesn't seem to generate tax revenue very
well.
Except government employment hasn't increased under Obama, it's actually
been steadily decreasing during his presidency (apart from a brief spike
when the decennial census was taken and they needed a lot of temporary
census workers), due mostly to the Republicans in Congress, whereas under
George W. Bush government employment was steadily increasing (this
collapsing of the public sector is probably contributing quite a bit to the
slow recovery). See the two graphs showing private sector and public sector
jobs under Bush and Obama here:
http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2013/04/public-and-private-
sector-payroll-jobs-bush-and-obama.html
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