On 27 March 2014 18:48, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote: > > On 26 Mar 2014, at 13:47, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, March 26, 2014, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote: > >> >> On 26 Mar 2014, at 01:37, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >> >> >> >> >> On 26 March 2014 11:29, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On 26 March 2014 12:12, Stathis Papaioannou <stath...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> An infinite universe (Tegmark type 1) implies that our consciousness >>>> flits about from one copy of us to another and that as a consequence we are >>>> immortal, so it does affect us even if there is no physical communication >>>> between its distant parts. >>>> >>>> Only if one assumes comp, I think, or something akin to Frank Tipler's >>> "Physics of Immortality" view which basically says that identical quantum >>> states are good enough to be mapped onto one another, and we experience all >>> the states together in an infinite BEC type thing until differentiation >>> occurs. (Cosmic, man!) >>> >> >> You don't have to assume comp. If the theory is that consciousness is >> secreted by the brain like bile is secreted by the liver, so that a >> simulation can't be conscious, there will be other brains in the universe >> similar enough to yours that they will have a similar consciousness. >> >> >> Assuming comp! >> If y consciousness is really needing the exact material bile in my liver, >> the other brain will just not be similar enough, and it is conceivable that >> although conscious like me, the copy might be another person. This makes no >> sense, if you use some form of comp. >> >> >> >> This is a concrete, no nonsense, no consciousness-flitting-about type of >> theory - but your consciousness will still effectively flit about because >> you can't be sure which copy you are. >> >> >> Assuming comp. If the exact "infinite state" of the bile is required, >> then by definition, the other person is a different person. I agree this >> seems absurd, but that is a comp prejudice. After all, I *can* conceive >> that the other might be an impostor an authentically "other person". >> > > If consciousness is secreted by the brain, then if you make a similar > brain you will make a similar consciousness. > > > yes, but if the brain secrets consciousness, and if my identity is in the > identity of the matter involved, the consciousness is conceivably similar, > but not "mine". I agree this makes not a lot of sense, but this is because > we put the identity (and consciousness) in the relational information, and > this uses comp. > > > > > The actual theory of consciousness doesn't make any difference here. > > The claim that the copy isn't really the same person is equivalent to, and > as absurd as, the claim that I'm not the same person after a night's > sleep. > > > > I agree, but I think you are using some functionalism here. Someone who > associates consciousness to its actual matter might say that he is the same > person after one night, but not after "seven years" (assuming the whole > material body constitution has been changed). That is a difficulty for his > theory, but it is logically conceivable if we abandon > comp/functionalism/CTM. Comp has not that problem, but then eventually we > must explain matter from information handled through number > relations/computations. > > Bruno >
It doesn't follow that if consciousness is substrate specific it can't be duplicated; it can in fact be duplicated in a straightforward way, by making a biological brain. Even if consciousness is due to an immaterial soul one could say that it could be duplicated if God performs a miracle. The claim that the duplicated consciousness "isn't really me" is a claim about the nature of personal identity, and is independent of any theory of how consciousness is generated. -- Stathis Papaioannou -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
