>> So does the agreement of physicists at CERN tell you nothing about whether
>> the Higgs boson exists?
It tells me absolutely nothing. Im interested in why they agree not that they
agree.
>> How do you know that - did you take someone's word for it? Was it a
>> scientist?
Assuming you are asking how do I know the germ theory is a superior theory. My
point is that whether it is superior or not can not be decided by appeals to
consensus. Maybe its sin. Maybe its not.
>> That's not really true.
It often is true.
>> Of course scientific revolutions start with one or two scientists
not a consensus then. You appear to agree then, are you just being
argumentative? Or are you really persuaded by consensus?
>> - but it's not that case that all the others disagree with the better
>> theory; they just haven't heard it yet. Look how quickly special
>> relativity, matrix mechanics, Schodinger's equation, and Dirac's theory of
>> the electron were accepted. Resistance to a new and better theory arises
>> when there is a lot of investment in old theories.
The speed with which people came to accept relativity is irrelevant. There was
a consensus against relativity initially because it was not derived from
experiment. Relativity was eventually convincing because it was confirmed by
experiment, not because lots of physicists accepted it.
Perhaps you accept relativity because you've been told about a consensus. I
accept it because I've read about the experimental confirmations.
>> Indeed, and they have. Every objection: heat island, cosmic rays, increased
>> insolation, measurement error, miscalibration of proxies,...has been studied
>> and answered.
And did they answer those objections by appealing to a consensus? Did they go
'Its not cosmic rays because 76% of scientists believe otherwise'?
>>You apparently didn't
read about Alfred Russell's experience with John Hampden.
No I didn't.
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2014 18:09:41 -0700
From: meeke...@verizon.net
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing
On 4/6/2014 5:35 PM, chris peck wrote:
Brent
If 100% of scientists were in agreement about climate change,
that fact alone, tells me nothing about the truth of the claims
they actually make.
So does the agreement of physicists at CERN tell you nothing about
whether the Higgs boson exists?
>>You probably didn't test the germ theory of disease or
conservation of energy either.
Yes, and my great great great great great grand parents didn't
test the theory that disease was caused by sin. They knew it was
sin because so many experts told them it was.
The superiority of my view over theirs can not be established by
an appeal to a consensus because in this regard me and my
ancestors are equivalent. They have their consensus and I have
mine. If I am to convince them I will have an easier time
drawing their attention to the actual science.
How do you know that - did you take someone's word for it? Was it a
scientist?
Whenever we're on the verge of a scientific revolution we're
usually in a situation where 99.999% of scientists disagree with
what happens to be more accurate.
That's not really true. Of course scientific revolutions start with
one or two scientists - but it's not that case that all the others
disagree with the better theory; they just haven't heard it yet.
Look how quickly special relativity, matrix mechanics, Schodinger's
equation, and Dirac's theory of the electron were accepted.
Resistance to a new and better theory arises when there is a lot of
investment in old theories.
But to get back to AGW, there was no "old theory". The increase of
temperatures due to CO2 from fossil fuel was predicted over a
hundred years ago and everybody who knew anything about it agreed -
UNTIL it appeared to be something we needed to act on. THEN there
were all kinds of wacky alternate 'explanations' proposed.
Those 99% have as much responsibility to show why
the 1% are wrong as vica versa.
Indeed, and they have. Every objection: heat island, cosmic rays,
increased insolation, measurement error, miscalibration of
proxies,...has been studied and answered. You apparently didn't
read about Alfred Russell's experience with John Hampden.
Brent
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